The sheep and the goats?

[Van]

In Matthew 25: 31-46 Jesus teaches about the end of the age of grace. He will begin is Millennial reign, sitting on His thrown.

Some have read this passage and conclude, mistakenly in my opinion, that Christ's division will be based on works.

But I believe "giving to Christ what He needed" refers to giving Christ, by those physically living at that time, trust, love and commitment.

In verse 40 we see that the sheep are "brothers" [siblings] of Christ, thus those having been born anew as children of God.

And on the other left side, the goats are described as not giving Christ what He needed. Perhaps they had never heard the gospel because it was not presented or because like Soil #1, they had lost their ability to understand the spiritual milk of the gospel. And of course, the many who had sought the narrow door. but never finding it, would have failed to fully embrace the gospel, like Soil #2 or #3 of Matthew 13. Their love for and commitment to Christ was not sufficient, such that Christ would or had become the overriding priority of their lives.

The key take away here, as in Matthew 7:21-23 is to do the "will" of the Father, which John presents with crystal clarity:

​

“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in [into] Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” [John 6:40 NASB]​

 

[Charlie24]

In Matthew 25: 31-46 Jesus teaches about the end of the age of grace. He will begin is Millennial reign, sitting on His thrown.

Some have read this passage and conclude, mistakenly in my opinion, that Christ's division will be based on works.

But I believe "giving to Christ what He needed" refers to giving Christ, by those physically living at that time, trust, love and commitment.

In verse 40 we see that the sheep are "brothers" [siblings] of Christ, thus those having been born anew as children of God.

And on the other left side, the goats are described as not giving Christ what He needed. Perhaps they had never heard the gospel because it was not presented or because like Soil #1, they had lost their ability to understand the spiritual milk of the gospel. And of course, the many who had sought the narrow door. but never finding it, would have failed to fully embrace the gospel, like Soil #2 or #3 of Matthew 13. Their love for and commitment to Christ was not sufficient, such that Christ would or had become the overriding priority of their lives.

The key take away here, as in Matthew 7:21-23 is to do the "will" of the Father, which John presents with crystal clarity:

​

“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in [into] Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” [John 6:40 NASB]​

I see this a different way, Van.

Christ is dividing nations at His Second Coming not individuals, on something they didn't do for Him.

Based on what had just happened at His Second Coming, He has just destroyed the Anti-Christ and his armies of many nations joined to together to destroy Israel.

The goat nations are those nations that joined with the Anti-Christ against Israel, with the sheep nations being those who tried to help Israel.

This judgment of the nations is based on the "righteous" dealings with God's chosen people by the nations during the Great Tribulation.

The judgment falls on the leaders of these nations with those leaders against Israel not being allowed into the Kingdom. It's not the entire nations that are sent into everlasting punishment.

The lost on earth that survived the Great Tribulation will at this time be allowed to accept Christ and enter into the 1000 year reign, with Israel fulfilling their calling during this time to take Christ to the world, but the leaders of the nations against Israel who joined in with the Anti-Christ are rejected.

There were probably many people in the goat nations that conspired against Israel as well to destroy them, they are probably numbered along with the leaders of those nations in rejection. It's believed by many that they are all executed, and eternally lost.

 

[37818]

I see this a different way, Van.

Christ is dividing nations at His Second Coming not individuals, on something they didn't do for Him.

Based on what had just happened at His Second Coming, He has just destroyed the Anti-Christ and his armies of many nations joined to together to destroy Israel.

The goat nations are those nations that joined with the Anti-Christ against Israel, with the sheep nations being those who tried to help Israel.

This judgment of the nations is based on the "righteous" dealings with God's chosen people by the nations during the Great Tribulation.

The judgment falls on the leaders of these nations with those leaders against Israel not being allowed into the Kingdom. It's not the entire nations that are sent into everlasting punishment.

The lost on earth that survived the Great Tribulation will at this time be allowed to accept Christ and enter into the 1000 year reign, with Israel fulfilling their calling during this time to take Christ to the world, but the leaders of the nations against Israel who joined in with the Anti-Christ are rejected.

There were probably many people in the goat nations that conspired against Israel as well to destroy them, they are probably numbered along with the leaders of those nations in rejection. It's believed by many that they are all executed, and eternally lost.

I see the Sheep and Goats as simply the Save and Lost NOT do to the works in the account being what is measured and weighed. Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[Charlie24]

I see the Sheep and Goats as simply the Save and Lost NOT do to the works in the account being what is measured and weighed. Revelation 20:11-15.

It's not about salvation, it's about justice being served on God's word.

God has always loved and saved Israel from extinction, and He will fulfill His promise in gathering all who caused harm to Israel and serving justice.

Joel 3:2

"I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land."

The Valley of Jehoshaphat means, "Jehovah has judged."

This is the Battle of Armageddon where God does His judging at His Second Coming. But these armies are not all who will be judged, first order of business after He has destroyed the Anti-Christ and those armies from all the nations are those who were behind and conspired to the destruction of His people.

 

[Van]

I see this a different way, Van.

Christ is dividing nations at His Second Coming not individuals, on something they didn't do for Him.

Based on what had just happened at His Second Coming, He has just destroyed the Anti-Christ and his armies of many nations joined to together to destroy Israel.

The goat nations are those nations that joined with the Anti-Christ against Israel, with the sheep nations being those who tried to help Israel.

This judgment of the nations is based on the "righteous" dealings with God's chosen people by the nations during the Great Tribulation.

The judgment falls on the leaders of these nations with those leaders against Israel not being allowed into the Kingdom. It's not the entire nations that are sent into everlasting punishment.

The lost on earth that survived the Great Tribulation will at this time be allowed to accept Christ and enter into the 1000 year reign, with Israel fulfilling their calling during this time to take Christ to the world, but the leaders of the nations against Israel who joined in with the Anti-Christ are rejected.

There were probably many people in the goat nations that conspired against Israel as well to destroy them, they are probably numbered along with the leaders of those nations in rejection. It's believed by many that they are all executed, and eternally lost.

Yes, our difference seems based on a different understanding of the meaning of the Greek word translated "nations." This word, in this grammatical form, nominative plural neuter, appears about 24 times in our NT. Here, I believe, the word is used to refer to the multitude of individuals all the living at that time, characterized by being "believers" and "non-believers," i.le the sheep and the goats. The use of the word "nations" was dictated by the group being comprised of Jews and Non-Jews. Several translations of Matthew 25:32 go with "the people of all nations" to make clear Jesus is dealing with them individually, rather than groups of people under various earthy governments.

Note in Acts 13:48 the word refers to Gentiles, non-Jews, some of which became individual believers. See also Galatians 3:8.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, our difference seems based on a different understanding of the meaning of the Greek word translated "nations." This word, in this grammatical form, nominative plural neuter, appears about 24 times in our NT. Here, I believe, the word is used to refer to the multitude of individuals all the living at that time, characterized by being "believers" and "non-believers," i.le the sheep and the goats. The use of the word "nations" was dictated by the group being comprised of Jews and Non-Jews. Several translations of Matthew 25:32 go with "the people of all nations" to make clear Jesus is dealing with them individually, rather than groups of people under various earthy governments.

Note in Acts 13:48 the word refers to Gentiles, non-Jews, some of which became individual believers. See also Galatians 3:8.

Ok, just presenting the way I see it. We are not all going to agree and have different views on it.

 

[Van]

Ok, just presenting the way I see it. We are not all going to agree and have different views on it.

Fine, but I wonder why all the people of one nation are sheep and another nation are goats.

 

[Charlie24]

Fine, but I wonder why all the people of one nation are sheep and another nation are goats.

It's the judgment of the nations that takes place immediately after Christ returns and destroys the Anti-Christ and the armies of the many nations with him.

Christ is judging who will enter into His earthly Kingdom of all the nations of the world. All of Israel is saved now as Paul told us "and all Israel shall be saved." Israel has seen Christ destroy the Anti-Christ and his armies right before their very eyes.

Christ now judges those nations based on how they handled His chosen people. Zechariah said that 2/3 of Israel will die in that battle of Armageddon.

The goat nation are all who took part with the Anti-Christ against Israel, and the sheep nations are those who tried to help Israel.

This is based on what what will happen when Christ returns. It's not about salvation, it's about judgment on the nations that that hated and wanted to destroy His chosen people.

Israel now takes up their calling of God to be the premiere nation in the world, the times of the Gentiles has ended.

 

[Van]

It's the judgment of the nations that takes place immediately after Christ returns and destroys the Anti-Christ and the armies of the many nations with him.

Christ is judging who will enter into His earthly Kingdom of all the nations of the world. All of Israel is saved now as Paul told us "and all Israel shall be saved." Israel has seen Christ destroy the Anti-Christ and his armies right before their very eyes.

Christ now judges those nations based on how they handled His chosen people. Zechariah said that 2/3 of Israel will die in that battle of Armageddon.

The goat nation are all who took part with the Anti-Christ against Israel, and the sheep nations are those who tried to help Israel.

This is based on what what will happen when Christ returns. It's not about salvation, it's about judgment on the nations that that hated and wanted to destroy His chosen people.

Israel now takes up their calling of God to be the premiere nation in the world, the times of the Gentiles has ended.

Sheep and goats are individuals, born anew believers and non-believers.

 

[JonC]

I see this a different way, Van.

Christ is dividing nations at His Second Coming not individuals, on something they didn't do for Him.

Based on what had just happened at His Second Coming, He has just destroyed the Anti-Christ and his armies of many nations joined to together to destroy Israel.

The goat nations are those nations that joined with the Anti-Christ against Israel, with the sheep nations being those who tried to help Israel.

This judgment of the nations is based on the "righteous" dealings with God's chosen people by the nations during the Great Tribulation.

The judgment falls on the leaders of these nations with those leaders against Israel not being allowed into the Kingdom. It's not the entire nations that are sent into everlasting punishment.

The lost on earth that survived the Great Tribulation will at this time be allowed to accept Christ and enter into the 1000 year reign, with Israel fulfilling their calling during this time to take Christ to the world, but the leaders of the nations against Israel who joined in with the Anti-Christ are rejected.

There were probably many people in the goat nations that conspired against Israel as well to destroy them, they are probably numbered along with the leaders of those nations in rejection. It's believed by many that they are all executed, and eternally lost.

Just a note -

ἔθνη (translated "nations") means "people" (not "nations" as we sometimes think of nations...like the US, UK, etc).

I think of it like "people groups". In Christ we are a chosen people (a chosen nation, a chosen race).

 

[Charlie24]

Sheep and goats are individuals, born anew believers and non-believers.

Yes, I agree, and they can also be nations.

Israel suffers many hardships and loss of life when the Anti-Christ invades them with the armies from many Gentile nations.

The goat nations are the ones that, "I was hungry and you gave me no meant (Israel) thirsty, and you gave ne no drink (Israel), a stranger and you took me not in (Israel), naked, or sick, and you clothed me not (Israel), in prison and you visited me not, (Israel).

All of this is what happens to Israel when they flee from the Anti-Christ and no one cares for them.

Matt. 24:15-21 is when this happens to Israel.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Van]

Yes, I agree, and they can also be nations.

Israel suffers many hardships and loss of life when the Anti-Christ invades them with the armies from many Gentile nations.

The goat nations are the ones that, "I was hungry and you gave me no meant (Israel) thirsty, and you gave ne no drink (Israel), a stranger and you took me not in (Israel), naked, or sick, and you clothed me not (Israel), in prison and you visited me not, (Israel).

All of this is what happens to Israel when they flee from the Anti-Christ and no one cares for them.

Matt. 24:15-21 is when this happens to Israel.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

No "nation" can be a born anew sibling of Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

No "nation" can be a born anew sibling of Christ.

Ok, Just explaining how I see it.

 

[Van]

The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.” [Galatians 3:8]

Here we see "Nations" used to refer to both Jews and Gentiles, and that justification comes through individual faith, not a national culture. Thus Matthew 25:32 refers to separating individual sheep, Jew or Gentile, from individual goats, Jew or Gentile.