Yes, it was a fulfillment of the DAYS OF VENGEANCE Jesus prophesied against that generation of Jews.
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The Significance of 144,000
- Thread starter Protestant
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Yes, it was a fulfillment of the DAYS OF VENGEANCE Jesus prophesied against that generation of Jews.
Personally, I don't really care who started preterism or futurism. Preterism is wrong, & that's THAT !
Matthew 23:39
Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Jesus said all that would be fulfilled within the generation then living. The next thing the Jews would see of him, was Jesus returning. If your rapture teaching had any truth, it would be Matthew 24:30 and that is after the tribulation of those days.
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Then why do you keep on about Jesuits teaching preterism.
I agree but futurism is far worse because it is the most popular. The ony non Jesuit reaching is historicism, and that is what the saints and martyrs believed and died for, by believing the Jesuit futurism, you are betraying them.
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Protestant
Well-Known Member
Revelation 11: The Two Witnesses - Part 13
A Short Synopsis of Persecutions & Massacres of French ‘Gospellers’ in the 16th Century
1523-24
[N.B. The following excerpt is taken from British Barrister, Henry Bower’s 1894 publication, The Fourteen of Meaux. Bower used both original and authoritative French sources for his translation.]
“Jean LeClerc, a wool-comber or carder, had been punished by the Parlement for a placard posted in 1523 on the Cathedral door at that town, denouncing the Pope as Antichrist. His mother, who was present at his flogging and branding cried out, ‘Vive Jesus Christ et ses enseignes’ [‘Long live Jesus Christ and His standard-bearers’]. Afterwards, while living as a carder at Metz where he actively propagated his views, he left town one night to the place in the neighborhood where a solemn [Roman Catholic religious] procession was to come the next day. There he destroyed the images. When charged with this crime, he confessed it, and announced that Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, should alone be adored. After suffering extreme and brutal tortures, during which he sang from the 115th Psalm, Their idols are silver and gold, made by human hands, etc., he was at last burnt to death.”
1545
“The Mérindol massacre took place in 1545, when Francis I of France ordered the Waldensians of the village of Mérindol to be punished for dissident religious activities. Provençal and Papal soldiers killed hundreds or even thousands of Waldensian [Vaudois] villagers” (Source).
A particularly gruesome, detailed account may be found here.
1546
[N.B. The following excerpt is from Bower’s translation of Jean Crespin’s Actiones et Monimenta Martyrum, 1560.]
“Among the many cities of the kingdom of France, which were by the word of God made sharers and partakers in heavenly grace, the town of Meaux [pronounced ‘MO’] should be given first place. Very few communities will be found which, though under the tyranny of Antichrist, so great faith was shown in proclaiming the truth of God’s word; such zeal and fervor in its acceptance; such vigor in its growth; and where, after a rapid expansion, it was established and defended with so much firmness……The knowledge of the Gospel was propagated far and wide…..To some it came as the sweet breath of life, while others found it a stumbling block and offence. However, in this church the seed sown began to flourish daily more and more. It yielded the richest fruit to the consolation and well-being of the elect. But at last Satan, prince of darkness, and the greatest foe to this wholesome light, perceiving that the ruin of his kingdom was imminent, called to action his familiar slaves. These were certainly the Franciscans.
“……some of [the Gospellers] were burnt. Jacques Pavanes began to teach the truth with such fervency of soul that he was the first to suffer death by fire in Paris. The chief ground for this punishment was his advocacy of that doctrine of the Supper which but few then recognized. Others were scourges, exposed with ignominy in a public place or sent into exile, and cast out of the kingdom itself. In a word, the enemies of the Gospel would never cease their work till all liberty to preach the truth should be taken away, till that wholesome understanding should be crushed, that lately risen light extinguished.
“……Pious men in whose souls the fear of God, along with that knowledge had found a home, saw clearly that the truth was banished from public places, as well as liberty to worship God in a simple worship. They therefore began to hold among themselves secret assemblies, following the example of the prophets under Ahab’s rule, and of those Christians who, in the infant days of the Church, were forced, by horrible persecutions to seek out hidden places of worship…….
“…….And there was continually nourished and fostered among them the hope that all France would soon receive the Gospel and throw off the impious and wicked tyranny of Antichrist. However, after long waiting, they came to see the time was still far distant when religion should be again cleansed of her impurities and that, on the other hand, the foul superstitions and abominations introduced by the Pope grew daily. Therefore, many who had kept themselves quite pure and undefiled from all idolatry of Masses, resolved in the year 1546 to establish among themselves a small and dutiful church on a certain [Strasburg/Calvin] model…..The chief authors and regulators of this undertaking were Estienne Mangin, a very good man of advanced years; and Pierre LeClerc [younger brother of the fore mentioned, Jean LeClerc], by skill and profession a carder, but exceedingly well versed in sacred literature….and was elected to be their minister…..
[Due to the large number of their congregation, they were soon discovered by informers who reported their activities to the authorities. Sixty persons of all ages and both sexes were arrested, without incident, during a worship service at Mangin’s house. Fourteen were chosen to undergo the severest of tortures to compel them to inform on their fellow adherents and supporters. These efforts proved unsuccessful. Seven had their tongues cut out before they were taken and burned alive in the great marketplace at Meaux, close to Mangin’s house.]
The ‘Heresies’ Attributed to Jacques Pavanes:
· The denial of Purgatory
· The assertion that God had no vicar
· Repudiation of excessive reliance on Church theologians
· Rejection of the customary salutation, ‘Hail Queen, Mother of Mercy!’
· Denied propriety of offering candles to the Saints
· Believed baptism to be a sign only
· Holy water was nothing
· Papal bulls and indulgences an imposture of the Devil
· The Mass of no avail for remission of sins, unprofitable to the hearer
· The Word of God is all sufficient
1572
“King Charles IX of France, under the sway of his mother, Catherine de Medici, orders the assassination of Huguenot Protestant leaders in Paris, setting off an orgy of killing that results in the massacre of tens of thousands of Huguenots all across France……Once the killing started, mobs of Catholic Parisians, apparently overcome with bloodlust, began a general massacre of Huguenots. Charles issued a royal order on August 25 to halt the killing, but his pleas went unheeded as the massacres spread. Mass slaughters continued into October, reaching the provinces of Rouen, Lyon, Bourges, Bourdeaux, and Orleans. An estimated 3,000 French Protestants were killed in Paris, and as many as 70,000 in all of France” (Source)
[N.B. The massacres of 1545 and 1572 were public knowledge. One can only imagine the unparalleled courage it took to stand up for the truth of Jesus Christ against such a cruel, brutal and inhumane foe.]
After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
To be continued…….
A Short Synopsis of Persecutions & Massacres of French ‘Gospellers’ in the 16th Century
1523-24
[N.B. The following excerpt is taken from British Barrister, Henry Bower’s 1894 publication, The Fourteen of Meaux. Bower used both original and authoritative French sources for his translation.]
“Jean LeClerc, a wool-comber or carder, had been punished by the Parlement for a placard posted in 1523 on the Cathedral door at that town, denouncing the Pope as Antichrist. His mother, who was present at his flogging and branding cried out, ‘Vive Jesus Christ et ses enseignes’ [‘Long live Jesus Christ and His standard-bearers’]. Afterwards, while living as a carder at Metz where he actively propagated his views, he left town one night to the place in the neighborhood where a solemn [Roman Catholic religious] procession was to come the next day. There he destroyed the images. When charged with this crime, he confessed it, and announced that Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, should alone be adored. After suffering extreme and brutal tortures, during which he sang from the 115th Psalm, Their idols are silver and gold, made by human hands, etc., he was at last burnt to death.”
1545
“The Mérindol massacre took place in 1545, when Francis I of France ordered the Waldensians of the village of Mérindol to be punished for dissident religious activities. Provençal and Papal soldiers killed hundreds or even thousands of Waldensian [Vaudois] villagers” (Source).
A particularly gruesome, detailed account may be found here.
1546
[N.B. The following excerpt is from Bower’s translation of Jean Crespin’s Actiones et Monimenta Martyrum, 1560.]
“Among the many cities of the kingdom of France, which were by the word of God made sharers and partakers in heavenly grace, the town of Meaux [pronounced ‘MO’] should be given first place. Very few communities will be found which, though under the tyranny of Antichrist, so great faith was shown in proclaiming the truth of God’s word; such zeal and fervor in its acceptance; such vigor in its growth; and where, after a rapid expansion, it was established and defended with so much firmness……The knowledge of the Gospel was propagated far and wide…..To some it came as the sweet breath of life, while others found it a stumbling block and offence. However, in this church the seed sown began to flourish daily more and more. It yielded the richest fruit to the consolation and well-being of the elect. But at last Satan, prince of darkness, and the greatest foe to this wholesome light, perceiving that the ruin of his kingdom was imminent, called to action his familiar slaves. These were certainly the Franciscans.
“……some of [the Gospellers] were burnt. Jacques Pavanes began to teach the truth with such fervency of soul that he was the first to suffer death by fire in Paris. The chief ground for this punishment was his advocacy of that doctrine of the Supper which but few then recognized. Others were scourges, exposed with ignominy in a public place or sent into exile, and cast out of the kingdom itself. In a word, the enemies of the Gospel would never cease their work till all liberty to preach the truth should be taken away, till that wholesome understanding should be crushed, that lately risen light extinguished.
“……Pious men in whose souls the fear of God, along with that knowledge had found a home, saw clearly that the truth was banished from public places, as well as liberty to worship God in a simple worship. They therefore began to hold among themselves secret assemblies, following the example of the prophets under Ahab’s rule, and of those Christians who, in the infant days of the Church, were forced, by horrible persecutions to seek out hidden places of worship…….
“…….And there was continually nourished and fostered among them the hope that all France would soon receive the Gospel and throw off the impious and wicked tyranny of Antichrist. However, after long waiting, they came to see the time was still far distant when religion should be again cleansed of her impurities and that, on the other hand, the foul superstitions and abominations introduced by the Pope grew daily. Therefore, many who had kept themselves quite pure and undefiled from all idolatry of Masses, resolved in the year 1546 to establish among themselves a small and dutiful church on a certain [Strasburg/Calvin] model…..The chief authors and regulators of this undertaking were Estienne Mangin, a very good man of advanced years; and Pierre LeClerc [younger brother of the fore mentioned, Jean LeClerc], by skill and profession a carder, but exceedingly well versed in sacred literature….and was elected to be their minister…..
[Due to the large number of their congregation, they were soon discovered by informers who reported their activities to the authorities. Sixty persons of all ages and both sexes were arrested, without incident, during a worship service at Mangin’s house. Fourteen were chosen to undergo the severest of tortures to compel them to inform on their fellow adherents and supporters. These efforts proved unsuccessful. Seven had their tongues cut out before they were taken and burned alive in the great marketplace at Meaux, close to Mangin’s house.]
The ‘Heresies’ Attributed to Jacques Pavanes:
· The denial of Purgatory
· The assertion that God had no vicar
· Repudiation of excessive reliance on Church theologians
· Rejection of the customary salutation, ‘Hail Queen, Mother of Mercy!’
· Denied propriety of offering candles to the Saints
· Believed baptism to be a sign only
· Holy water was nothing
· Papal bulls and indulgences an imposture of the Devil
· The Mass of no avail for remission of sins, unprofitable to the hearer
· The Word of God is all sufficient
1572
“King Charles IX of France, under the sway of his mother, Catherine de Medici, orders the assassination of Huguenot Protestant leaders in Paris, setting off an orgy of killing that results in the massacre of tens of thousands of Huguenots all across France……Once the killing started, mobs of Catholic Parisians, apparently overcome with bloodlust, began a general massacre of Huguenots. Charles issued a royal order on August 25 to halt the killing, but his pleas went unheeded as the massacres spread. Mass slaughters continued into October, reaching the provinces of Rouen, Lyon, Bourges, Bourdeaux, and Orleans. An estimated 3,000 French Protestants were killed in Paris, and as many as 70,000 in all of France” (Source)
[N.B. The massacres of 1545 and 1572 were public knowledge. One can only imagine the unparalleled courage it took to stand up for the truth of Jesus Christ against such a cruel, brutal and inhumane foe.]
After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
To be continued…….
Then, you have a real prob. JESUS HASN'T YET RETURNED! And the trib hasn't yet happened, either.
It is you who have a problem.
The great tribulation in Olivet was on the Jews, as a result of their puting their king to death. There was no tribulation "such as" that, where the priests were all murdered, those who had lately worn the sacred garments were thrown naked into the streets and their bodies trodden upon. The priesthood was ended as the house of archives was burnt down. The daily sacrifice ceased. The Temple was destroyed. Jerusalem was destroyed. The vinyard was taken from the Jews and given to another. Matthew 21:33-46
There was no tribulation such as that.
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You're wrong again, of course. Again, for one who says he's not a pret, you have a lotta pret doctrines.
Now, let Scripture prove you wrong.
Matt.24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Perhaps your Bible doesn't have those verses in it. But at any rate, you totally ignored them. If you believe the events of 70 AD were the great trib, when were the above verses fulfilled ????????
And when did all life in the sea die? When was all green grass burned up?
I have corrected you on that passage of scripture before on other threads and verse 30 recently.
You know that stars can't fall to earth as they are much greater than the earth. You then changed to shooting stars. Of course that is a great sign as they appear every year. Similar prophecies in the OT have similar symbolic fulfillments.
Ezekiel 30:6-18
Ezekiel 32:2-15
Isaiah 34:4-10
Isaiah 13:9-21 fulfilled in Daniel 5:28-31
There are many other similar verses. Sun, moon and stars in prophecy are always symbolic.
There are verses describing sun, moon or stars representing people in Genesis, Daniel and Revelation, I won't look them up as I have shown you before and you took no notice then and you are unlikely to now.
You didn't reply to how you pre tribulation fits in with Olivet when it shows that the separation of the saved and unsaved is after the tribulation.
Futurism and preterism have the same father.
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That has nothing to do with Olivet. Why don't you keep to the point?
More guesswork, & Scripture-twisting , in the preterist manner.
No, you didn't correct anything. You gave your private interps of some passages, same as you did below.
Because that's what they'll be. "Shooting stars"or "falling stars" has been a common expression for meteors for millenia, before people knew what they are. Jesus, of course, knew, but He expressed it in terms His disciples would understand.
But Jesus was speaking of a special time when the natural light would be dimmed also, likely due to dust, smoke, etc.
Except history proves futurism correct.
And I see you still don't wanna tell us when all life in the sea died, or when all green grass was burned up.
No, you didn't correct anything. You gave your private interps of some passages, same as you did below.
Because that's what they'll be. "Shooting stars"or "falling stars" has been a common expression for meteors for millenia, before people knew what they are. Jesus, of course, knew, but He expressed it in terms His disciples would understand.
But Jesus was speaking of a special time when the natural light would be dimmed also, likely due to dust, smoke, etc.
Most were, or will be LITERALLY fulfilled. The conquest of babylon certainly was. The invaders blocked off a waterway into Babylon City at night & entered through it. They killed Belshazzar & many of his nobles, along with many other people of the city, with their leader, Darius, becoming king of the city while his son Cyrus was dealing with Nabonidus, Belshazzar's father & actual king of the Bab empire.
Unless they're literal.
That's cuz I know better.
The saved & unsaved are separated at death. And the trib hasn't yet happened.
Except history proves futurism correct.
And I see you still don't wanna tell us when all life in the sea died, or when all green grass was burned up.
Protestant
Well-Known Member
Revelation 11: The Two Witnesses - Part 14
SELECTED BELIEFS HELD BY JOHN WYCLIFFE OFFICIALLY CONDEMNED BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
[N.B. The following is compiled from Dr. Gordon Leff, Heresies in the Latter Middle Ages, 1967, Manchester Univ. Press.]
1. That the material substance of bread and the material substance of wine remain in the Sacrament of the altar. [i.e. the Mass is a lying wonder, no transubstantiation occurs.]
3. That Christ is not in the Sacrament essentially and really, in his own corporeal presence. [i.e. the people are deceived who think they eat Christ.]
4. That if a bishop or priest be in mortal sin he does not ordain, consecrate or baptize. [The Donatists also held this precept. To this day they are considered 'heretics.']
5. That it is not taught in the Gospel that Christ ordained the Mass. [The Mass is considered a perpetual bloodless sacrifice; the Lord's Supper is a memorial of Christ's once for all finished sacrifice.]
10. That it is contrary to Holy Scripture that ecclesiastics should have possessions. [The wealth of the clergy was scandalous, as it is today with our Megachurch evangelists.]
14. That any deacon or priest may preach the word of God apart from the authority of the Apostolic See or a Catholic bishop. [Preaching is ordained by Christ through the gift of the Holy Spirit. No man or denomination has exclusive rights to that office.]
21. That anyone who enters a religious order, whether those which espouse poverty or allow possessions, is rendered incapable and unfit for the performance of God's commandments. [i.e. they are more apt to commit crimes of perversion having taken an oath of celibacy.]
22. That holy men have sinned in founding religious orders. [i.e. religious orders are not of God.]
23. That the religious who live in orders are not Christians. [Even though they are religious persons.]
24. That friars are bound to gain their livelihood by the labor of their hands, and not by begging.
27. All things happen from absolute necessity. [i.e. God has predestinated every event which will infallibly come to pass.]
30. The excommunication by the pope or any other prelate is not to be feared, because it is the censure of Antichrist.
37. The Church of Rome is the synagogue of Satan; nor is the Pope the immediate and proximate Vicar of Christ and of the Apostles. [i.e. there is no salvation in the Church of Rome.]
THE COUNCIL OF CONSTANCE, AD 1415, CONDEMNATION OF JOHN WYCLIFFE
HIS BOOKS FORBIDDEN TO BE READ
INQUISITION CALLED TO FIND AND BURN ALL HIS WRITINGS
"The same John Wycliffe composed certain books, treatises, volumes, and small works.....these books, for the publication of his perverse doctrine, he did set forth openly for every man to read, [resulting] in great scandal, damage and peril to souls.....The most reverend fathers, the archbishops, legates of the Apostolic See did condemn them, commanding the said books be burned and forbade the reading of those which remain unburned.....And to the intent that this dangerous and most filthy doctrine should be utterly banished out of the church, [the bishop of Rome] gave commandment that diligent inquisition should be made everywhere...after all such books, treatises, volumes, and works, and that being found should be burned with fire."
[Calling Wycliffe's beliefs 'notoriously heretical', 'erroneous', 'blasphemous', 'offensive to godly ears', 'rash', 'seditious', 'unsound and unwholesome doctrine, hostile both to faith and morals', the Council continues its tirade of thunders:]
THE FAITHFUL FORBIDDEN TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES
"We forbid all faithful Christians from the reading, learning, exposition and alleging of the said books and we forbid, under pain of curse, any Christians from presuming openly to preach, teach, hold, or allege any of the said articles, except for the purpose of reprobating them; commanding all these books, treatises, volumes and works to be openly burned, as was decreed in the synod of Rome....."
THE COUNCIL BLASPHEMES WYCLIFFE WHO DWELLS IN HEAVEN - REV.13:6
HIS BODY ORDERED DISINTERRED - REV.11:9
".....the impenitency and final obstinacy of the said John Wycliffe...having been lawfully proved by evident signs and tokens made good by lawful witnesses.....This holy synod declares, determines, and gives sentence, that the same John Wycliffe was a notorious heretic, and that he died obstinate in his heresy; we curse him and condemn his memory. This synod also decrees and ordains that his body and bones, if they might be discerned from the bodies of other faithful people, should be taken out of the ground, and thrown away far from the burial of any church."
THE OFFICIAL ROMAN CATHOLIC VIEW OF WYCLIFFE TODAY: 'OXFORD SCHOLAR, REFORMER, HERETIC' (Source)
“Old-fashioned Protestant writers, who used to treat medieval heresy as a continuous witness to the truth, found in Wyclif a convenient link between the Albigenses and the sixteenth-century reformers, and the comparison is, perhaps, of interest. Like the heretics of the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, Wyclif started with an attack on clerical wealth; he then went on to dispute the authority of the Church and, finally, its sacramental system…… Wyclif resembled the Protestant Reformers in his insistence on the Bible as the rule of faith, in the importance attributed to preaching, and in his sacramental doctrine.”
[N.B. ‘The old-fashioned Protestant writers’ were the brilliant Protestant Reformers whose arguments for separation from the Church of Rome were grounded in Scripture, from both a doctrinal and moral standpoint. They were all agreed upon the Historicist interpretation of the Revelation as the only correct view, in contradistinction from that of the Jesuits’ Preterist and Futurist views.]
NEXT: Wickliffe’s condemnation of the Friars.
SELECTED BELIEFS HELD BY JOHN WYCLIFFE OFFICIALLY CONDEMNED BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
[N.B. The following is compiled from Dr. Gordon Leff, Heresies in the Latter Middle Ages, 1967, Manchester Univ. Press.]
1. That the material substance of bread and the material substance of wine remain in the Sacrament of the altar. [i.e. the Mass is a lying wonder, no transubstantiation occurs.]
3. That Christ is not in the Sacrament essentially and really, in his own corporeal presence. [i.e. the people are deceived who think they eat Christ.]
4. That if a bishop or priest be in mortal sin he does not ordain, consecrate or baptize. [The Donatists also held this precept. To this day they are considered 'heretics.']
5. That it is not taught in the Gospel that Christ ordained the Mass. [The Mass is considered a perpetual bloodless sacrifice; the Lord's Supper is a memorial of Christ's once for all finished sacrifice.]
10. That it is contrary to Holy Scripture that ecclesiastics should have possessions. [The wealth of the clergy was scandalous, as it is today with our Megachurch evangelists.]
14. That any deacon or priest may preach the word of God apart from the authority of the Apostolic See or a Catholic bishop. [Preaching is ordained by Christ through the gift of the Holy Spirit. No man or denomination has exclusive rights to that office.]
21. That anyone who enters a religious order, whether those which espouse poverty or allow possessions, is rendered incapable and unfit for the performance of God's commandments. [i.e. they are more apt to commit crimes of perversion having taken an oath of celibacy.]
22. That holy men have sinned in founding religious orders. [i.e. religious orders are not of God.]
23. That the religious who live in orders are not Christians. [Even though they are religious persons.]
24. That friars are bound to gain their livelihood by the labor of their hands, and not by begging.
27. All things happen from absolute necessity. [i.e. God has predestinated every event which will infallibly come to pass.]
30. The excommunication by the pope or any other prelate is not to be feared, because it is the censure of Antichrist.
37. The Church of Rome is the synagogue of Satan; nor is the Pope the immediate and proximate Vicar of Christ and of the Apostles. [i.e. there is no salvation in the Church of Rome.]
THE COUNCIL OF CONSTANCE, AD 1415, CONDEMNATION OF JOHN WYCLIFFE
HIS BOOKS FORBIDDEN TO BE READ
INQUISITION CALLED TO FIND AND BURN ALL HIS WRITINGS
"The same John Wycliffe composed certain books, treatises, volumes, and small works.....these books, for the publication of his perverse doctrine, he did set forth openly for every man to read, [resulting] in great scandal, damage and peril to souls.....The most reverend fathers, the archbishops, legates of the Apostolic See did condemn them, commanding the said books be burned and forbade the reading of those which remain unburned.....And to the intent that this dangerous and most filthy doctrine should be utterly banished out of the church, [the bishop of Rome] gave commandment that diligent inquisition should be made everywhere...after all such books, treatises, volumes, and works, and that being found should be burned with fire."
[Calling Wycliffe's beliefs 'notoriously heretical', 'erroneous', 'blasphemous', 'offensive to godly ears', 'rash', 'seditious', 'unsound and unwholesome doctrine, hostile both to faith and morals', the Council continues its tirade of thunders:]
THE FAITHFUL FORBIDDEN TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES
"We forbid all faithful Christians from the reading, learning, exposition and alleging of the said books and we forbid, under pain of curse, any Christians from presuming openly to preach, teach, hold, or allege any of the said articles, except for the purpose of reprobating them; commanding all these books, treatises, volumes and works to be openly burned, as was decreed in the synod of Rome....."
THE COUNCIL BLASPHEMES WYCLIFFE WHO DWELLS IN HEAVEN - REV.13:6
HIS BODY ORDERED DISINTERRED - REV.11:9
".....the impenitency and final obstinacy of the said John Wycliffe...having been lawfully proved by evident signs and tokens made good by lawful witnesses.....This holy synod declares, determines, and gives sentence, that the same John Wycliffe was a notorious heretic, and that he died obstinate in his heresy; we curse him and condemn his memory. This synod also decrees and ordains that his body and bones, if they might be discerned from the bodies of other faithful people, should be taken out of the ground, and thrown away far from the burial of any church."
THE OFFICIAL ROMAN CATHOLIC VIEW OF WYCLIFFE TODAY: 'OXFORD SCHOLAR, REFORMER, HERETIC' (Source)
“Old-fashioned Protestant writers, who used to treat medieval heresy as a continuous witness to the truth, found in Wyclif a convenient link between the Albigenses and the sixteenth-century reformers, and the comparison is, perhaps, of interest. Like the heretics of the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, Wyclif started with an attack on clerical wealth; he then went on to dispute the authority of the Church and, finally, its sacramental system…… Wyclif resembled the Protestant Reformers in his insistence on the Bible as the rule of faith, in the importance attributed to preaching, and in his sacramental doctrine.”
[N.B. ‘The old-fashioned Protestant writers’ were the brilliant Protestant Reformers whose arguments for separation from the Church of Rome were grounded in Scripture, from both a doctrinal and moral standpoint. They were all agreed upon the Historicist interpretation of the Revelation as the only correct view, in contradistinction from that of the Jesuits’ Preterist and Futurist views.]
NEXT: Wickliffe’s condemnation of the Friars.
You mix two prophecies which are not connected and make a strange interpretation. Olivet was mainly on Jerusalem in 66-70, Your ridiculous connection above is nothing to do with Olivet.
Remember. I was taught dispensationalism in the Plymouth Brethren so I know it. Then when I looked at it with scripture, I found it to be false.
Why do you think that the early church taught a continuous progression of fulfillment, (with one or two exceptions) as did the so called "heretics" through the ages, the reformers and baptists all?
Then after the reformation the Jesuits came up with preterism and futurism, then wonder of wonders it was brought into protestantism in the 1820's. Confined mainly to the Plymouth Brethren in England and was widely considered to be a heresy tll near the end of the 19th century. But by then the false teaching had reached the USA, as Darby and other PB's (My wife who was converted in the Brethren called them Peebs) visited USA and the teaching began to take off there. Phillip Mauro, a new york Lawyer, who was an early Disp. traced the begining of the teaching in NY to a Brethren man who visited in about 1908. You will find his books on the preterist site but I don't count him as a preterist as he still considered the angtichrist to be future. They still show some of his books from when he was a dispy.
I think his book on the seventy weeks is a masterpiece.
Still, the prophesied events haven't yet occurred. No matter what, you cannot get by that FACT.
The Roman desolating armies came, and destroyed the city and temple. The temple was destroyed just as Jesus foretold. The christians fled Jerusalem, just as Jesus commanded.There was great tribulation, or distress on the Jews. And a spiritaual darkness came over the city, and it all happened within the generation that Jesus was addressing, just as he said. You cannot get by THAT FACT.
Yes, that was the "days of vengeance" Jesus declared against that generation. The eschatological events didn't then occor, nor have they yet occurred.
Protestant
Well-Known Member
Recently, a zealot posted a reply to another’s remark which concluded with the haughty epitaph, “And that’s THAT!”
In other words, his authoritative opinion is not to be brought into question nor examined more closely because the brilliance of his argument is undeniable and irrefutable.
I am reminded of John Wickliffe’s rebuke of the Friars of his day. (Translation by this present writer from this source.)
Cap. 45. Friars holier than other men.
“Friars, displaying an exalted Luciferian pride, insist they are more holy than all those outside their sect. This despite the fact they bind themselves to the traditions of sinful men which are full of error. Moreover, they reject the most sufficient rule of Jesus Christ who left out nothing needful. However, no matter how well priests or bishops succeed in fulfilling their God-given office, the friars allege these would be more holy still if they would only convert to their newly pretended religious tenets and rules of obedience…..
“The friars are forever boasting how their religion is superior to that which Christ delivered to His Apostles and preachers. By so doing they make themselves wiser, more enlightened and charitable than Christ, since they teach a better way to Heaven than did Christ.”
In other words, his authoritative opinion is not to be brought into question nor examined more closely because the brilliance of his argument is undeniable and irrefutable.
I am reminded of John Wickliffe’s rebuke of the Friars of his day. (Translation by this present writer from this source.)
Cap. 45. Friars holier than other men.
“Friars, displaying an exalted Luciferian pride, insist they are more holy than all those outside their sect. This despite the fact they bind themselves to the traditions of sinful men which are full of error. Moreover, they reject the most sufficient rule of Jesus Christ who left out nothing needful. However, no matter how well priests or bishops succeed in fulfilling their God-given office, the friars allege these would be more holy still if they would only convert to their newly pretended religious tenets and rules of obedience…..
“The friars are forever boasting how their religion is superior to that which Christ delivered to His Apostles and preachers. By so doing they make themselves wiser, more enlightened and charitable than Christ, since they teach a better way to Heaven than did Christ.”
That was I !
I meant what I said. Preterism is false, phony as a Ford Corvette. The prophesied eschatological events have simply not yet occurred. And that's THAT ! !
WHAT I AM WRITING , I AM WRITING TO ALL - THE HIGHLIGHT : STARS WILL FALL FROM HEAVEN
... THE STARS WILL FALL FROM HEAVEN. May we interpret this prophetic revelation literally? Ridiculous, no? Also to say that the prophecy refers to meteors is meaningless, it is a mockery of the wisdom of God.
Surely it is not NASA that will interpret this prophecy for us, but does the prophetic source itself, the Scriptures, the Word of God, agree?
What kind of stars will fall from heaven? By the way, God created STARS in the fourth Day, i.e. around 4,000 years of works or four Days of works. God revealed this mystery to Moses after 2.500 years of works, or two Days and half, as follows:
Gen.1:v.16-17 - 16 And God made TWO Great Lights; the Greater Light (it is not the Sun, but the Greater Light) to rule the day, and the Lesser Light (it is not the moon, but the Lesser Light) to rule the night: He made the STARS also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to GIVE LIGHT upon the earth. The scientists of NASA understand nothing about this, so they are unable to interpret this Scripture for us, but the prophet Daniel, by the Holy Spirit, he has the real wisdom to tell us a lot about STARS.
Daniel says that THEY that be WISE (or who can discern or has discernment) will shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the STARS for ever and ever. Dan.12:v.3
As we can see, God created STARS to do a very important work in the world of darkness: to turn many to righteousness, in other words, everyone who has led others to please God will shine like the STARS.
But look this: The angel of the Lord said to John: The MYSTERY of the seven STARS which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven STARS ARE THE ANGELS of the seven churches. (Rev.1:v.20)
But we cannot forget that there are also "WANDERING STARS (these STARS are persons, evidently), to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever - or forever doomed to the darkest pits of hell - . Jude 1:v.13. There are several examples like these that may be explored for better understanding.
That said, what kind of STAR are you? Are you a STAR that turn many to righteousness or led many to please God? or are you a wandering STAR forever doomed to the darkest pits of hell identified in Jude 1:v.12-13?
AGAIN: ... THE STARS WILL FALL FROM HEAVEN.
What kind of STARS will fall from heaven? But how? Isaiah prophesied: 14:v.12 CJB - Complete Jewish Bible - 12 “How did you come to fall from the heavens, morning STAR, SON of the dawn? How did you - morning STAR - come to be cut to the ground, conqueror of nations?
JESUS revealed the things which should come to pass, and His angel showed to John: Revelation 12:v.3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder IN HEAVEN; and behold a Great red Dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his TAIL drew the third part of the STARS of heaven (Mat.24:v.29), and did cast them to the earth: and the Dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Did you see? Are you seeing? The THIRD PART OF THE STARS will be cast down from heaven to the earth by the TAIL of the red Dragon, yeah, by the TAIL OF THE RED DRAGON. This terrible and satanic EVENT will happen very soon. Notice that will not be the 7 heads of the red Dragon, neither his 10 horns that will cast the STARS from heaven to the earth, but his TAIL.
Why the TAIL? Because the TAIL of the red Dragon works and moves itself among the people of God, exclusively, the TAIL does not work in the environment of the 7 heads, neither of the 10 horns. That said you MUST discern urgently if you are being guided by the TAIL of the red Dragon, or not, for if you discern not this you may be cast by the TAIL from heaven to the earth, and will be lost for ever.
But who are the TAIL of the red Dragon? Isaiah reveals unto us who are them: Is. 9:v.15-16:
15 The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that TEACHETH LIES, HE IS THE TAIL. 16 For the LEADERS of this people cause them to err; and they that ARE LED of them are destroyed. - Why the LEADERS cause people to err and destroy them are LED by them? Because they are FALSE PROPHETS, they are false preachers of the Word of God, fallen STARS. --- FROM NOW ON THEY ALL WILL SUFFER THE WRATH OF GOD THAT WILL FALL UPON THEM ALL --- Isa.9:v.14 says: 14 Therefore the Lord will cut off from Israel head and TAIL, branch and rush, in one Day. - Be sure, this Day has arrived, the Lord's Day, and God will execute His Word - the Word is God, understand?
Exodus 4:v.1-5
4 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The Lord hath not appeared unto thee.
2 And the Lord said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod.
3 And he said, Cast it on the ground. And Moses cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it.
4 And the Lord said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it BY THE TAIL. And Moses put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became A ROD in his hand:
5 That they may believe that the Lord God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee.
Did you see? The Lord instructed Moses to take the serpent by the TAIL. God said - the Word is God - “Put your hand out and take the serpent by the TAIL.” Moses took hold of it with his hands, and the serpent become a ROD again in his hand.
The ROD is a symbol of the Word of God, the Scripture, the Bible - it on the hands of false prophet or false preachers of the Word of God, it becomes a mortal serpent, that is the TAIL of the red Dragon, the TAIL of Satan.
The true Christians / believers must take the Serpent by the TAIL, and the God of peace WILL BRUISE Satan under our feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with we all. Amen.
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