The Sinners prayer

[Alive in Christ]

Iconoclast...

this list of verses does not prove your false theory...they do not deal with election....you do not understand it ....

I dont understand it?

Brother, you are forgetting something....

I was once a full blown calvinist.

I was just...like...you.

Yes, I understood it. But I praise God that He opened my eyes, and I fled it.

 

[agedman]

Iconoclast...



I dont understand it?

Brother, you are forgetting something....

I was once a full blown calvinist.

I was just...like...you.

Yes, I understood it. But I praise God that He opened my eyes, and I fled it.

Perhaps it wasn't God that "opened (your) my eyes."

Circumstances,
Position availability,
Emotionalism,
Friendships,
Criticism,

(and the list could continue)

 

[Alive in Christ]

Agedman..

This is from several pages back. I meant to comment, but didnt. Sorry.

Here goes...

You posted...

First, the unregenerate man has no ability to "sincerely choose to place their faith in Christ."

Then how did I manage to do it?

And I have been in the presence of multitudes of people who did that very thing. Millons of people have done it.

God does not put people in a trance, as lost people, then do a few incantations, and then..*presto-chango* ...they "come to" as believers in Christ.

I knew a lot of facts about Christ from attending the Roman Catholic cult during my growing up years. Wasnt saved, but knew lots of facts.

Years later, as an adult, I became very interested in true Christianity. I was under conviction. God is good at that, and he convicts everyone. I eventually became born again. I was regenerated.

Nothing was forced on me. No magic took place, but the Holy Spirit sure was there. I just knew that I wanted Jesus Christ to indwell me and save me. He did, and my life has never been the same since.

I...nobody else...made that decision. I was standing at the valley of decision, and I chose Christ. I placed my hope of eternal life squarely Jesus Christ. Nobody did that for me

It was my decision, as a worthless sinner, to do that

 

[agedman]

Agedman..

I knew a lot of facts about Christ from attending the Roman Catholic cult during my growing up years. Wasnt saved, but knew lots of facts.

Years later, as an adult, I became very interested in true Christianity. I was under conviction. God is good at that, and he convicts everyone. I eventually became born again. I was regenerated.

Nothing was forced on me. No magic took place, but the Holy Spirit sure was there. I just knew that I wanted Jesus Christ to indwell me and save me. He did, and my life has never been the same since.

I...nobody else...made that decision. I was standing at the valley of decision, and I chose Christ. I placed my hope of eternal life squarely Jesus Christ. Nobody did that for me

It was my decision, as a worthless sinner, to do that

I thank The Lord Jesus Christ that He sought you, brought conviction by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God, brought certain illumination to your understanding, and impressed upon you salvation.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Perhaps it wasn't God that "opened (your) my eyes."

Circumstances,
Position availability,
Emotionalism,
Friendships,
Criticism,

(and the list could continue)

Haha. Not a chance. I was there. It was God.

(if it were anything else it would have worn off by now. Its been 30 years now)

 

[Iconoclast]

Posting a long list of references is NOT what I asked you to supply.
To quote a few areas of my post:

Why don't you start with presenting five verses in context that state "whosoever wills" in regard to salvation.

Paul states in 2 Corinthians and in Galatians that the believer is by faith of Jesus Christ. "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Show me the Scriptures; especially Scriptures that state the unregenerate person has their own power and volition to: First, have a "free will" and secondly "to chose salvation" without the expressed work of the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures.​

But to respond (in part) to the list you posted:


Matthew 11:28-30

28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light​

.
(These verses are not about “unconditional election.”)


John 4:42

42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)

John 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which sees the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)

John 6:51

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


Acts 13:39

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)

Romans 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.​

(These verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


Romans 5:1-2

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


Romans 9:30

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


Ephesians 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


1 Timothy 4:10

10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


1 Peter 1:1-2

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.​

Well of all the verses in the list, we finally find one that actually is about “election.”

BUT please note that the “foreknowledge of God the Father” is the “according to” that the subject (elect) refers.

More, such election and foreknowledge takes place before the foundation of the world, which also includes the sanctification, and the sprinkling of blood.

I won't respond to the rest of "alive in Christ" post - it would do little to edify him.

:thumbs::applause::applause: He does not seem to understand what he is being asked.....but then again,if he understood it...w.e would not be having this discussion.:laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast...



I dont understand it?

Brother, you are forgetting something....

I was once a full blown calvinist.

I was just...like...you.

Yes, I understood it. But I praise God that He opened my eyes, and I fled it.

This is not possible.....if you were your responses would be sharper,and the verses you would offer would show an understanding...that you are not showing..... You might have been around cals....maybe for a short time...but you do not really have the basic idea.....your posts speak louder than what you say here:thumbs: like this;

Ha! Cavinism is the theological system that advocates "magic", as in the idea that God regenerates someone

God does regenerate persons...Titus 3

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

 

[Alive in Christ]

Brother Iconoclast...

Regarding the prooftexts that I provided to support men and women being involved in choosing Christ, like I did, and millions of others, have done, you posted under each one...

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.

You are in a state of full blown denial.

...as in:

I have seen the big red ball in the room, I have felt the big red ball in the room, and I have handled the big red ball in the room, but...

THERE IS NO BIG RED BALL IN THE ROOM, and NOBODY can can convince me that there IS.

Whew

 

[mandym]

:thumbs::applause::applause: He does not seem to understand what he is being asked.....but then again,if he understood it...w.e would not be having this discussion.:laugh:

You know simply saying that someone is wrong without explaining your view to support your claim makes it look like you cannot support your view and faisl to promote further discussion.

 

[Iconoclast]

Brother Iconoclast...

Regarding the prooftexts that I provided to support men and women being involved in choosing Christ, like I did, and millions of others, have done, you posted under each one...

AIC....your statement here....men and woman choosing Christ...

Is NOT....NOT...election.....Election is done by God....not men and women.:thumbs:

You are in a state of full blown denial.

...No AIC....i just believe the whole council of God......not just half of it:wavey:
Actually...agedman quoted under each one....I did however agree with his fine post......AIC.....the verses you offered did not speak about election.

Election took place before we were born....God elected us as sinners...not as believers;

Chapter 10: Of Effectual Calling
1._____ Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.
( Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4 )
2._____ This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead.
( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )

 

[Iconoclast]

You know simply saying that someone is wrong without explaining your view to support your claim makes it look like you cannot support your view and faisl to promote further discussion.

I like to give a more detailed answer...if someone really wants an answer.
I liked AIC to the cartoon Mr.Magoo.....in that he walked in and out of dangerous situations seemingly oblivious to what was all around him....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDIYmwa6vnQ&feature=related

Mandy...I believe AIC is a nice person.....but he does not seem to interact
with the scriptures in a way that shows he gets it. Agedman.....in this thread ..went point by point and walked him through his own post...but it was like water off a ducks back....Agedman did an excellent job ....but AIC has to spend time looking at the response.

 

[mandym]

But a personal prayer to God for salvation is not the "sinner's prayer". The latter is the repeatable formula that a person says to God (in theory). What is the point of this repeatable formula? Are we saying that the person who is going to pray to God for salvation does not know what to pray for???

What we are saying is that someone who is a new born Christian does not know how to pray and they are not comfortable doing it. Don't blow it out of proportion.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Iconoclast..

You posted...

Actually...agedman quoted under each one....I did however agree with his fine post......

Dang!

Thank you for sharing that with me Iconoclast. I apologize.

Another *Senior Moment* I guess. :laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast..

You posted...



Dang!

Thank you for sharing that with me Iconoclast. I apologize.

Another *Senior Moment* I guess. :laugh:

AIC.....

Everytime the bible speaks of Election and predestination it is meant to be a great comfort to struggling,persecuted saints:thumbs: Why do you fight against the comfort of God? do a concordance study....look up election, elect...and see how these verses are surrounded by comfort....

42 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Just rejoice in it AIC:thumbs:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Iconoclast....

You posted...

Mandy...I believe AIC is a nice person.....but he does not seem to interact
with the scriptures in a way that shows he gets it. Agedman.....in this thread ..went point by point and walked him through his own post...but it was like water off a ducks back....Agedman did an excellent job ....but AIC has to spend time looking at the response.

Oh my!! You have no idea the (((HUGE LAUGH))) I got out of that. Im, not kidding in any sense. Seriously My little dog looked up really quickly with that "what was that" look. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


I just have to say to you guys...

I implore you...

Please consider turning from your Calvinism liturature, and your guru Mr Calvin, and come back to the purity of the scriptures, with the Holy Spirit as you guide..rather then a mere man. It will be a tremendous benifit for you guys..I promise.

God bless

...and I have no idea why my font is so big.:type:

 

[Tom Butler]

Let's see if we can get back to the OP. I have some more questions.

Can one be saved without praying the Sinner's Prayer?

I never said the prayer. Am I in trouble?

My pastor asked me (a nine-year-old) "Are you sorry for your sins?" Yes
"Do you trust Christ for your salvation?" Yes

Was that enough?

Are there others here on the BB who never said the prayer?

Paul told the Mars Hill philosophers to repent. (Some believed and were saved). He told the Philippian jailer to believe. (He was saved).

What words did you use to get saved? We don't have a record of the jailer's saying anything in response to the admonition to believe--or any of his family. The Ethiopian eunuch told Philip "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" and Philip baptized him.

No prayer here. No one asked God to save him.

So, if someone asks you how to be saved, what will be your answer?

Pray this prayer, say these words, repeat after me? What scriptures will be the basis of your answer?

I heard someone say to a lost person, "if you want God to save you, ask Him." Was this good counsel?

Okay, I've rambled enough. Release the hounds.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Let's see if we can get back to the OP. I have some more questions.

Can one be saved without praying the Sinner's Prayer?

My goodness, YES!

I never said the prayer. Am I in trouble?

My pastor asked me (a nine-year-old) "Are you sorry for your sins?" Yes
"Do you trust Christ for your salvation?" Yes

Was that enough?

If you were sincere....Absolutly!

Are there others here on the BB who never said the prayer?

I never said any kind of formulated prayer.

Paul told the Mars Hill philosophers to repent. (Some believed and were saved). He told the Philippian jailer to believe. (He was saved)

Yep!

What words did you use to get saved?

Gosh, I dont remember precisly, I was mostly crying. I think I prayed something like "God, I cant take this anymore. Whatever it is that these "born again" people have....I want it. I want to know you like they do, and I am finally willing to ask you for it.

My life has never been the same since then.

We don't have a record of the jailer's saying anything in response to the admonition to believe--or any of his family. The Ethiopian eunuch told Philip "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" and Philip baptized him.

No prayer here. No one asked God to save him.

So, if someone asks you how to be saved, what will be your answer?

It depends on the person. All of my wittnessing is conversational. I have no "method"

Pray this prayer, say these words, repeat after me?

I have never had an ecounter that went like that.

What scriptures will be the basis of your answer?

It would depend on how the conversation is going.

I heard someone say to a lost person, "if you want God to save you, ask Him." Was this good counsel?

As far as I an concered it is.

Okay, I've rambled enough. Release the hounds.

Oh dont worry about them, they are too busy trying to figure me out! :laugh:

 

[Tom Butler]

Oh, I thought of another question or two.
When one confesses with his mouth Jesus Christ as Lord, to whom does he confess it?

Does he confess to God? To other people?

When one believes, whom does he tell? God? Other people?

I know that repentance is toward God, but does that it means we tell God we repent?

 

[Tom Butler]

Oh dont worry about them, they are too busy trying to figure me out!

Thanks for taking the time to answer my quiz. I know it seems as if I'm obsessed with the mechanics of salvation (the right words to say, the right formula, the right method of soul-winning), but I have seen easy-believism in action and it's not pretty.

I just want to make sure that when I point someone to Christ, I give them the right directions.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

:thumbs: He does not seem to understand what he is being asked.....but then again,if he understood it...w.e would not be having this discussion.:laugh:

That's obviously what it is...those stupid non-Cals simply have not reached the level of intellectual enlightenment necessary to comprehend Biblical basics such as Salvation and what-not. Obviously, the remnants of the Noetic effects of sin further Sanctification will fix this no doubt....Stupid Winman....don't you know that the deeper things of God are for Calvinists and Trix are for kids??