It is God alone who saves anyone. The fact that God uses someone to preach does not alter that truth. Can't you understand Winman that it is God who calls a man to preach and any good that occurs through that preaching is caused by God.
It is God alone who can forgive sins and regenerate a person, giving them spiritual life, but God never saves alone, he uses men as instruments.
Even Paul when speaking to Timothy spoke of him "saving" people.
1 Tim 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them:
for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
This verse shows that man participates with God in salvation. It is important to teach proper doctrine, otherwise people will not hear the proper gospel and be saved.
This is the point I tried to originally make, if salvation only involves God, then a preacher could preach complete error to a man, but if God wanted to regenerate that man he would. It would not matter that a preacher preach proper doctrine if the preacher is not actually involved in bringing someone to a saving knowledge of Christ. Likewise, if God has chosen to pass over a man, again it also would not matter what the preacher preached, that man will be passed over even if the preacher gives a perfect presentation of doctrine.
So it is nonsensical to worry about how or what method a preacher preaches if Calvinism is true. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Your hatred of the truth that God alone saves has blinded you to the truth and you are missing so much knowledge of the grace of God!
And I could just as easily say you hate and resist the truth.
Is this how you count Winman: 1, 2, 3, 4 or can you count by 2's; 2, 4, 6, 8, 10?
I know that God and the preacher who preaches the gospel equals two persons.
What is a sinner"s prayer Winman. Have you ever prayed anything other than a sinner's prayer? If so you are unique because Scripture teaches that since Adam only Jesus Christ is without sin.
If you do not know what the sinner's prayer is, then why are you participating and criticizing others in this thread? You don't even know what you are talking about.
The sinner's prayer is when a sinner specifically calls on God to forgive all their sins and give them eternal life as opposed to praying for an illness to be healed for instance.
There is that "sinner's prayer" again. I wish someone would tell me just what they mean. In my opinion every prayer is a sinner's prayer.
I prayed that God would help me find a good used car for a reasonable price and he answered my prayer, but that is not the "sinner's prayer". The sinner's prayer is for forgiveness of sins and salvation, as the publican prayed in Luke 18;
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying,
God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Note that the Pharisee prayed and boasted to God how good he was. This is not a sinner's prayer. But note that the publican confessed he was a sinner and prayed for God to have mercy on him. This is the sinner's prayer. And note that only the publican went down to his house "justified", all his sins forgiven.
Also I would like to meet the man who never prayed for forgiveness of sin. I have met the only Man who lived without sin!
The Pharisee in Luke 18 did not pray for forgiveness of sin. I do not know men's hearts, but obviously Jesus was giving us an example of how some men pray. They believe they are good and their life merits eternal life. I have never known a man like this, but Jesus gave us this example.
But any many who sincerely prays and asks Jesus to have mercy on him and forgive his sins is saved. This is calling on the name of the Lord for salvation.
But again, if men are not involved in salvation with God, it would not matter how they preached, God will save a chosen elect man at the right time regardless. And if Calvinism is true and God has decided to pass a man by, then it also does not matter how well the preacher preaches, that man will never be saved.
So, these books by John MacArthur and Paul Washer make absolutely no sense if Calvinism is true, the preacher's message has absolutely nothing to do whether a man "truly" gets saved or is a "false convert" in Calvinism.
Calvinism talks out of both sides of it's mouth once again.
