Originally posted by Carson Weber:
[QB] Hi Kelly,
You wrote, "The Bible does not provide that Jesus was created by God"
Then Jesus is God.
Not necessarily. Jesus is not a creation of God, becuase He proceeded forth and came from God. He is NOT the Most High God, because there is only ONE Most High God. I've already said that I do believe Jesus to be diety, but He is NOT equal to God, and the level of diety He has was given to Him by God.
He proceeded out of God.
Then he is created. Anything that is produced [proceeded, begotten, etc.] within time is termed "creation", even if it isn't composed of matter; that's what the spirits called "angels".
Ok, the BIBLE says He proceeded out of God, and YOU say that makes Him created?
Sorry, but, uh, NO.
The difference with God the Son is that he is eternally begotten; the first procession within the Trinity, like the second (that of the Holy Spirit), is eternal.
It is impossible that God can lie. Do you agree? If what YOU just said is true, then GOD is lying.
There was a time when He was still IN God.
If Jesus was in God before he came out of God, then there are multiple persons within God. Someone who isn't extant can't be extant within another being, else such is extant.
HUH? Ok, Carson, I know you think you know everything, but could you just briefly explain for the class what YOU think extant means? Based on my knowledge of that word you didn't make a lick of sense just now.
NOW, He is Yeshua
You can say "Jesus"; it's okay.
Actually I am trying to remove that word from my vocabulary. Do you know the historic origins of the word 'jesus'? You know, His name is NOT 'jesus' it IS Yeshua? I'll call Him Yeshua, thanks.
It is impossible that God could exist and not have a beginning.
OOoooookaaaaayyyy.... Then who or what caused God to come into existence?
Okay? You don't honestly think I was saying that seriously, do you? YOU SAID, it is impossible...blah blah... so my response is that EVERYTHING we believe about God, is IMPOSSIBLE, according to man.
Get a grip.
By the way, since you are a wee bit philosophy-deficient, may I remind you that in God, his existence and his essence are identical, unlike creation, whose essence is created and held into existence by God as contingent beings.
I'm glad I am not well versed in the philosophy of man. I praise God that my mind is not tainted by the deceit of man. God is not the subject here, Yeshua is. God is not being questioned. I am quite aware that mankinds existence is contingent upon God sustaining life. That life, which is Christ, is sustained by God. Christ is the life of all men. He is the Light that lights man. That LIGHT that came from God. FROM God. Which makes Christ FROM God.
That is, contingent upon the power of God to hold such beings in existence.
hmmmm.
If God said that Jesus was born of Him, then THAT is what happened.
I'm not denying that the Son of God is generated by the Father; I'm denying that this generation occurred once in time, and I am affirming that it is an eternal generation.
Carson, do you honestly think that the Son of God, who proceeded forth and CAME from God, is forever proceeding forth and coming from God? You know, that IS NOT what the Bible says! The Bible is pretty clear on this one, and the Greek tense of that word is in a PAST tense. Which means that He, at some point in time (oohhhh) came out of God. There isn't a constant stream of Christ flowing out of God! There is GOD, Yahweh, and ever since He came out of God, there is Yeshua, His Son. There is STILL, as there was BEFORE He came out, ONLY ONE GOD.
Time is relative.
And in God, there is no change, thus relativity is impossible for God; creation is relative only in relation to God, the unmoved mover and infinite being.
You should make your handle the Riddler.
Again, I am going to have to ask you to tell us all what YOU think 'relative' means. With the current definition, I am certain, most of us know, you didn't make any sense, again.
Kelly, you're presenting irrational contradictions (like Mormons are susceptible to quite often).
And Catholics NEVER do that.
The Christian faith isn't irrational; revelation is above reason and elevates it, but it doesn't run contrary to reason.
I can't help but point out, that you just don't make any sense. God GAVE us reason, so that we would judge to see if the things we are taught are of God, by studying His Word. If we believe that our beliefs are ABOVE the scrutiny of reason, then we are leaving ourselves open to all sorts of false doctrines and LIES. What you just said, is a HUGE contradiction of terms.
...in your words, there is an inherent irrationality, which is what you are demanding from both yourself and your audience.
Ok, first you tell me that I must believe the trinity based on my FAITH, and that it is because of my REASON that I deny it! NOW you are telling me that my statements are irrational??? Do you know what that word means?
You remind me of my 8 year old, who hears adults use words, and because he knows adults know more than kids, he starts using them, having NO IDEA what they mean, so he will 'appear' intellegent.
Get yourself a dictionary.
