Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (KJV)
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The Son of Man Coming in His Kingdom
- Thread starter Pastor_Bob
- Start date
I think it's ridiculous to think Christ was saying 'some of you will still be alive six days from now'.
27 But I tell you of a truth, There are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Lu 9
31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21
Take note of the synonymy between "some of you shall in no wise taste of death" and "this generation shall not pass away".
Take note of the synonymy between "the coming of the Son of man" and the coming of the kingdom.
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
I lean toward it referring to the sending of the Holy Spirit and the empowering of the church at Pentecost. I base that on the following passages:
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. (KJV)
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (KJV)
The gospel began to be published abroad like it had never been before. The gospel of Christ is the power of God (Romans 1:16).
Why is this even an issue? 2 Peter 1:16-18 specifically uses the word 'coming' (Matthew 16:28; Mark 9:1) to describe the Transfiguration of our Lord. The word 'majesty' is also there, though the Greek word is not etymologically connected to the word for 'kingdom.'
Our Lord's words in Luke 9:27 are exactly correct. Peter, James and John did not die before they saw the kingdom of God in preview; the other apostles did die.
Our Lord's words in Luke 9:27 are exactly correct. Peter, James and John did not die before they saw the kingdom of God in preview; the other apostles did die.
I would agree that this was a refernce to them seeing Him in his glory on the mount!
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
This is not an issue, brother; this is an opinion poll. None of us can be dogmatic about our answer. We can simply state what we believe and then back up our position with Scripture.
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
I agree that it seems like the Transfiguration was too soon after this to be to what Jesus was referring. I certainly wouldn't say they're wrong dogmatically; but, it seems unlikely in my opinion.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I don't know that we know how soon the transfiguration occurred after Jesus's statement, even though Matthew places it soon after. If not for John, we wouldn't know Jesus's ministry was 3 years. Jesus could have made that statement on many occasions.
To me personally the Kingdom Of God didn't come until the temple sacrificed ceased and Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD... Others see it different, no problem... Brother Glen
Btw... I not to concerned when it came, we all have our different thoughts on this but I know according scripture there is a greater Kingdom To Come!
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1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus is God ruling the universe, so his spiritual kingdom became visible as he preached it and confirmed it with signs and wonders. I think Pentecost and converts to the New Covenant also provided the same visible presence of his kingdom with his signs and wonders following. Today we have miraculous evidence of the kingdom's presence in the changed lives of those who are part of it.
In the light of 2 Peter 1:16-18 and the fact that all three Synoptic Gospels write about it, I think we completely underestimate the significance of the Transfiguration.
As soon as Peter had made his made his momentous confession of faith in Christ, our Lord told His disciples that some of them would see the Son of man coming in His kingdom. And that is exactly what happened just a few days later. 'For we did not follow cunningly-devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eye-witnesses of His majesty.' Peter, James and John saw, as it were, a preview of Christ in His glory. Peter could have written about our Lord's baptism, His miracles, His resurrection or His ascension, but the thing that made the deepest impression upon him was the Transfiguration. Why is that a problem? Why can't we accept it?
Bob, we certainly can be dogmatic in our opinion.
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I concur completely with this view.
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The King is the personification of the Kingdom. Where the King is, that is where the Kingdom is.
Anyone who has ever been aboard a US Navy ship knows when the Captain comes on board he is announced as being on board by saying "(Name of Ship) aboard." Not his name, but the name of the ship for he, as Captain, is the personification of his ship.
So Jesus is the Personification of His Kingdom.
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
The difficult part for me to reconcile with this view is that Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" Matthew 16:28 (KJV)
This implies that there were some standing there who would taste death prior to this event. Matthew 17:1 tells us that the Transfiguration was just six days after Jesus spoke these words. To my knowledge, none of the disciples had died by then.
If Jesus was referring to His church and the coming of the Holy Spirit, Judas would have died before he saw this event.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Good points. This moves me to my second option for what Jesus meant. Not Pentecost, but his coming in God's wrath to obliterate Jerusalem. Any thoughts?
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So God's Kingdom is the Roman Army? Doesn't seem like a spiritual kingdom to me...
As for myself, I'm kinda torn between the Resurrection and the Ascension.
One possibility is that it means exactly what it says.
These folk are still here on planet earth awaiting His return.
Please don't use the "H" word
No, with respect that is exactly wrong. "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" Matthew 16:28 (KJV). Peter, James and John saw the Lord Jesus coming in His kingdom; the others died not having seen the event. It's really very simple.
True, but 'Some standing here' rather suggests a minority than a large majority.