The Soul Who Sins Shall Die

[Jarthur001]

No. And babies aren't guilty either, but they die.

all men die.

is this not the point...

Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die

Who sins?

hint...look at Romans 3

 

[Amy.G]

all men die.

is this not the point...

Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die

Who sins?

hint...look at Romans 3

We do. What's your point?

 

[Jarthur001]

I don't understand what you mean by God "allowing" Christ to die. Christ IS God. He CHOSE to die in my place. That's why the cross means everything.

allow me to post what I mean...

When Christ was on earth there was but one will. That will was to serve the Father.

These are some verses from John

38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

28Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, cried out, “Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. I am not here on my own authority, but he who sent me is true. You do not know him

34“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.


42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Did God want the Son to die in my place, even though the Son was not guilty?

 

[Brother Bob]

maybe you did not understand. Let me ask again.

Was Christ allowed to take my guilt although he had never sinned?

Was he allowed by the Father to die for my sins when it was me that was guilty?

a yes or a no will do.

1Cr 15:3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1Jo 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

BBob,

 

[Jarthur001]

We do. What's your point?

the point on this one?

well..
you said Babies die...

I said all men die....and that is the point of the passage.

Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die

Well...that's part of the point as it relates to verse 4. There is even more to come.

 

[Jarthur001]

1Cr 15:3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1Jo 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

BBob,

??

this has nothing to do with the thread or the subject. We are not even talking about this passage nor this subject. Am I missing something? Help me out. What is your point? Why will you not answer a yes or a no?

 

[Amy.G]

I think what you're trying to say is that Christ died for the sins of others, therefore we die for sins of Adam. Have I got it?

 

[Brother Bob]

the point on this one?

well..
you said Babies die...

I said all men die....and that is the point of the passage.

Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die

Well...that's part of the point as it relates to verse 4. There is even more to come.

1Pe 2:24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Difference in the soul dying and the body die.

The body is going to die because of an appointment. The soul only dies when it sins.

If it were possible for the body to never sin, it would still die, because of an appointment. That appointment may of come from the sin of Adam, but does not come from our sins. We will die physically, whether we sin or whether we do not.

BBob,

 

[Jarthur001]

I think what you're trying to say is that Christ died for the sins of others, therefore we die for sins of Adam. Have I got it?

Not just in a passive way. He was sent by God the Father for this reason. God the Father demanded a prefect Lamb...sinless. If we claim God will pass guilt to another if they have not sinned, then we have no hope. Our hope is based on Christ with no sin, taking our guilt because...and this is the kicker.....because God demanded a spotless pure sinless Lamb.

right?

Please don't leave. there is more..and it gets better

 

[Amy.G]

Please don't leave. there is more..and it gets better

I hope so. :laugh:

I can't guarantee I'll be around for all this "better" stuff.

 

[Brother Bob]

??

this has nothing to do with the thread or the subject. We are not even talking about this passage nor this subject. Am I missing something? Help me out. What is your point? Why will you not answer a yes or a no?

If those scripture are not a yes, I am confused.

BBob,

 

[Jarthur001]

I hope so. :laugh:

I can't guarantee I'll be around for all this "better" stuff.

Ok...next step.

same passage..

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself

. (Ezekiel 18:19, 20).

Verse 19 goes with verse 20. What does this mean?

 

[Jarthur001]

If those scripture are not a yes, I am confused.

BBob,

it really maybe me Bob....I have had a long day.

sorry.

 

[Brother Bob]

it really maybe me Bob....I have had a long day.

sorry.

I think I see where you are heading James and I just want to remind you. There are more deaths than one, to the body and soul.

We die in sin
We die dead to sin
We die physically
We die second death, both soul and body.
We die when we sin( the soul)
Wages of sin are death, which is the BiG death, LoF.

BBob,

 

[Amy.G]

Ok...next step.

same passage..


. (Ezekiel 18:19, 20).

Verse 19 goes with verse 20. What does this mean?

This passage is speaking about individual accountability. What I've been saying all along.

Christ is/was not accountable for my sins. He chose to bear them.

 

[Jarthur001]

I think I see where you are heading James and I just want to remind you. There are more deaths than one, to the body and soul.

We die in sin
We die dead to sin
We die physically
We die second death, both soul and body.
We die when we sin( the soul)
Wages of sin are death, which is the BiG death, LoF.

BBob,

Yes, but this passage is talking about one of two things. It is physically or spiritual. The other deaths you bring up are not in this passage. If it is spiritual death we will find alot of doctrine problems we cannot over come. I just showed one.

 

[skypair]

James,

Me thinks you are on another "rabbit trail" if the people of Christ can't even understand where you are taking this thread.

Look at it this way --- Christ took our sins and died in a similar manner as Adam took Eve's. What happened to Adam? God restored him. What happened to Christ? The Father restored Him. Both Adam and Christ died and we are still left with Ezek 18:20 meaning the soul that sins dies meaning "My God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken Me?"

Believe me, James ... the longer it takes you to explain this, the more untrue is going to be what you have to say. :saint:

skypair

 

[Jarthur001]

This passage is speaking about individual accountability. What I've been saying all along.

Christ is/was not accountable for my sins. He chose to bear them.

Well..I must agree that it is talking about accountability.

But lets look at this just as you said and others on this BB, that this is only spiritual death.

The passage I asked about is this..

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself

If this be spiritual death in this passage and that only, how is one made right? If Christ cannot take my place in death, he cannot replace my sins with righteousness. It would all be on me. And you can see even in this verses if taken the way you would wish, that replacement is not allowed. I'm right, based on my own righteousness. or as the passage says..."his righteous shall be upon himself"

So I ask you...is there an exception to this, even to your view found in scripture?

 

[Jarthur001]

James,

Me thinks you are on another "rabbit trail" if the people of Christ can't even understand where you are taking this thread.

Look at it this way --- Christ took our sins and died in a similar manner as Adam took Eve's. What happened to Adam?

Maybe you still do not understand Sky, but I think others have seen my point. Yes..I took it slow, which sometimes you must. But we now see one major point that changes the outcome of the passage.

It seems like even you have said about that Christ was allowed to take my guilt on the cross, even though He was not guilty. Am I right?

The rest of your post finds no logic to the subject

 

[Brother Bob]

Maybe you still do not understand Sky, but I think others have seen my point. Yes..I took it slow, which sometimes you must. But we now see one major point that changes the outcome of the passage.

It seems like even you have said about that Christ was allowed to take my guilt on the cross, even though He was not guilty. Am I right?

The rest of your post finds no logic to the subject

We are not Christ. I don't care for you comparing man to Christ. No one could have done what the Lord did and that was to take the sins of others. The rest of us will stand before God for ourselves and not another.

BBob,