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The Soul Who Sins Shall Die

Jarthur001

Active Member
The Soul Who Sins Shall Die
18:1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge’? 3 As I live, declares the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

5 “If a man is righteous and does what is just and right— 6 if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor's wife or approach a woman in her time of menstrual impurity, 7 does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, 8 does not lend at interest or take any profit, withholds his hand from injustice, executes true justice between man and man, 9 walks in my statutes, and keeps my rules by acting faithfully—he is righteous; he shall surely live, declares the Lord God.

10 “If he fathers a son who is violent, a shedder of blood, who does any of these things 11 (though he himself did none of these things), who even eats upon the mountains, defiles his neighbor's wife, 12 oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore the pledge, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits abomination, 13 lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself.

This verse has been misused and abused over the last few months by some wanting to change scripture to fit their doctrine. Its time we take a look at it.

What does it mean?
 

Amy.G

New Member
It means you are accountable to God for your own sins and not the sins of another.

Your wickedness is your own and your righteousness is your own.

The sins of the father are not accounted to the son. Which means that Adam's sin was not accounted to Seth and Seth's sins were not accounted to his children and so on and so on and so on, until you get all the way up to me and you. However, we all die because of Adam's sin, but we become spiritually dead (separated from God) because of our own sin.
 

Jarthur001

Active Member
Amy.G said:
It means you are accountable to God for your own sins and not the sins of another.

Your wickedness is your own and your righteousness is your own.

The sins of the father are not accounted to the son. Which means that Adam's sin was not accounted to Seth and Seth's sins were not accounted to his children and so on and so on and so on, until you get all the way up to me and you. However, we all die because of Adam's sin, but we become spiritually dead (separated from God) because of our own sin.

Thanks Amy for your reply.

I want to address this a few ways.
1st...If this be the case, how do you handle the atonement?

Christ must be 100% man just as He is 100% God.

If guilt of sin cannot be placed on another man, unless he himself has sinned, what does this do to the atonement?
 
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Amy.G

New Member
Jarthur001 said:
Thanks Amy for your reply.

I want to address this a few ways.
1st...If this be the case, how do you handle the atonement?

Christ must be 100% man just as He is 100% God. If no man can die for anothers sin, does this mean the atonement is no good?
First of all, are you questioning God's word when He said "his blood shall be upon himself"?
We do not get to blame others for our sin. That is what God is saying.
We are held accountable for our sins only. My son can't tell God that he sinned because his dad did. He will be accoutable to God for his own sins, not the sins of my husband.

Obviously Christ could die for other's sin because He did. It was His choice; out of love for the world.


Jhn 10:17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
Jhn 10:18 "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."
 

Marcia

Active Member
Jarthur001 said:
I want to address this a few ways.
1st...If this be the case, how do you handle the atonement?

Christ must be 100% man just as He is 100% God. If no man can die for anothers sin, does this mean the atonement is no good?

I think Amy gave a good reply. :thumbs:

This is what I think: The context is that people had been dying due to others' sins - for example, in the OT when parents worshiped false gods, or disobeyed God, their children were also sometimes executed by God.

Here God is saying this is no longer the case.

Jesus didn't die as a victim due to others sinning, he willingly took on sin in order to atone for them, and only Jesus, as the perfect Lamb, could do this. The atonment is not the same category as those who died due to the sins of parents, etc.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Jarthur001 said:
Thanks Amy for your reply.

I want to address this a few ways.
1st...If this be the case, how do you handle the atonement?

Christ must be 100% man just as He is 100% God. If guilt of sin cannot be placed on another man, what does this do to the atonement?
Christ had a body of flesh, but He is God. You can't compare him with mankind.

Scripture says if we (mankind), give our bodies to be burned it would profit us nothing.

No other name given under heaven, whereby a man can be saved. Hang us all, it won't profit nothing. Only Jesus, the only begotten Son of God.

BBob,
 

Jarthur001

Active Member
Amy.G said:
First of all, are you questioning God's word when He said "his blood shall be upon himself"?

We do not get to blame others for our sin. That is what God is saying.
We are held accountable for our sins only. My son can't tell God that he sinned because his dad did. He will be accoutable to God for his own sins, not the sins of my husband.

Obviously Christ could die for other's sin because He did. It was His choice; out of love for the world.


Jhn 10:17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
Jhn 10:18 "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."

Did Christ take your guilt?

Was Christ guilty?

Did He die for your sins?
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Jarthur001 said:
Did Christ take your guilt?

Was Christ guilty?

Did He die for your sins?
What so ever sayeth the scripture:

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

BBob,
 

Jarthur001

Active Member
Brother Bob said:
Christ had a body of flesh, but He is God. You can't compare him with mankind.

Scripture says if we (mankind), give our bodies to be burned it would profit us nothing.

No other name given under heaven, whereby a man can be saved. Hang us all, it won't profit nothing. Only Jesus, the only begotten Son of God.

BBob,

Was Christ 100% man as well as 100% God?

Did Christ die for sins?

If so...was Christ guitly?
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Jarthur001 said:
Was Christ 100% man as well as 100% God?

Did Christ die for sins?

If so...was Christ guitly?
Don't know where you going with this James, but knowing you, I know something is up.

What so ever sayeth the scripture:

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

BBob
 

Jarthur001

Active Member
Brother Bob said:
What so ever sayeth the scripture:

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

BBob,
in other words he died?

But was He guilty?
 

jdlongmire

New Member
John Calvin said:
We are not condemned in Adam as if we were innocent in ourselves, but we have contracted pollution from his sin; and so it has come to pass that each must bear the punishment of his own crime, since the punishment which he deserved first is not simply inflicted on the whole human race, but we have been tainted with his sin, as will afterwards be said. Whatever the meaning, we shall not die innocent, since each is held convicted by the testimony of his own conscience. As far as relates to young children, they seem to perish not by their own, but for another's fault; but the solution is twofold; for although sin does not appear in them, yet it is latent, since they carry about with them corruption shut up in their soul, so that they are worthy of condemnation before God. This does not come under the notice of our senses; but we should consider how much more acutely God sees a thing than we do: hence, if we do not penetrate into that hidden judgment, yet we must hold that, before we are born, we are infected by the contagion of original sin, and therefore justly destined to ultimate destruction: -- -this is one solution. But as far as concerns the Prophet's expression, the dispute concerning infants is vain and out of place, since the Prophet only wished to refute that impious perverseness, as I have said, so that the people should no longer charge God with cruelty. The soul, says he, which has sinned; that is, none of you can boast of innocence when I punish you: as when it is said, He who does not labor, neither let him eat. (2 Thessalonians 3:10.) Surely this cannot be extended to infants. Nature teaches us that they must be nourished, and yet sure enough they do not acquire their food by labor: but this is said of adults, who are old enough to acknowledge the reason why they were created, and their fitness for undergoing labor. So also, in this place, we are not treating of the tender young when newly born, but of adults, who wish to charge God instead of themselves, as if they are innocent; and so, when they cannot escape punishment, they are anxious to transfer the fault elsewhere -- first upon others, and then upon God himself.

from here

1 Cor 13

21For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
 

Amy.G

New Member
Jarthur001 said:
Was Christ 100% man as well as 100% God?

Did Christ die for sins?

If so...was Christ guitly?
No. WE are guilty.


Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

He laid down His life for the sheep. It was His choice to do so. God planned it before He created the world, before sin even came into the world.

Why do you ask what you already know?
 

Jarthur001

Active Member
Amy.G said:
No. WE are guilty.


Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

He laid down His life for the sheep. It was His choice to do so. God planned it before He created the world, before sin even came into the world.

Why do you ask what you already know?

Well this truth must be known or we fall into error. If Christ was not allowed by God to take my place, even if he was not guilty and I am the one guilty, then the death on the cross means nothing.

So just to be clear. Was Christ allowed to take my guilt although he had never sinned? Was he allowed by the Father to die for my sins when it was me that was guilty?

One yes will do....if you agree
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Jarthur001 said:
Well this truth must be known or we fall into error. If Christ was not allowed by God to take my place, even if he was not guilty and I am the one guilty, then the death on the cross means nothing.

So just to be clear. Was Christ allowed to take my guilt although he had never sinned? Was he allowed by the Father to die for my sins when it was me that was guilty?

One yes will do....if you agree


1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

This says more than he died.

BBob,
 

Jarthur001

Active Member
Brother Bob said:
1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

This says more than he died.

BBob,

maybe you did not understand. Let me ask again.

Was Christ allowed to take my guilt although he had never sinned?

Was he allowed by the Father to die for my sins when it was me that was guilty?

a yes or a no will do.
 

Amy.G

New Member
Jarthur001 said:
Well this truth must be known or we fall into error. If Christ was not allowed by God to take my place, even if he was not guilty and I am the one guilty, then the death on the cross means nothing.

So just to be clear. Was Christ allowed to take my guilt although he had never sinned? Was he allowed by the Father to die for my sins when it was me that was guilty?

One yes will do....if you agree
I don't understand what you mean by God "allowing" Christ to die. Christ IS God. He CHOSE to die in my place. That's why the cross means everything.
 
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