The Sovereignty of God in the life of Joseph

[Silverhair]

...so...you want a God for whom some things are out of control so that your God is taken by surprise and unaware of what is happening...
Why would you prefer such a God where He is less than perfect?

Austin the God of the bible is in control and has allowed for mans free will choices. The God as Calvinists see Him is afraid to allow man to make any choices. Who do you think has a higher view of God. Hint it is not the Calvinist.

 

[Silverhair]

If either you or @Silverhair has a substantial point to raise that has not already been answered, I will do my best to answer it. But I see no point in going through the thread going 'tis,' tisn't' and getting more and more heated. Silverhair wrote:

The writers of the 1689 Confession have specifically refuted that (see the OP). I cannot be responsible for someone using his fallen human logic to probe the deep things of God and find them unsatisfactory.

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1

yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.

Martin you say The writers of the 1689 Confession have specifically refuted the question.

I still have not seen a rational answer to how God can decree freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass and yet the LBCF & WCF & Calvinists say He does not author sin. Does sin not fall under ALL THINGS?

Why are you so determined to defend those men yet you will throw God under the bus.

I do not expect you to answer this post but you should take a serious look at the foundation of your Calvinist views.

 

[AustinC]

Austin the God of the bible is in control and has allowed for mans free will choices. The God as Calvinists see Him is afraid to allow man to make any choices. Who do you think has a higher view of God. Hint it is not the Calvinist.

Indeed, God is in control. All of man's decisions fall under his preview. No decision of man could come about without God allowing. A good example is Balaam. Balaam attempted to make a decision in which God said "No." Balaam therefore could not do as he willed. His will was only free to act within the confines of God's parameters and no farther. This is true for all humans. Human decisions always fall within the parameters God defines and are not free to act beyond that parameter. Thus we state that free will does not exist. If it did, then man would determine his own parameters. Man does not and cannot do such a thing. Man's choices are always under the determined will of God.

Are you now ready to admit your misunderstanding? Or are you still going to promote the untenable theory of free will?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

the God of the bible is in control and has allowed for mans free will choices.

You have answered the question that you asked me. That is exactly what the Confession is saying. God has ordained whatsoever things come to pass, and has allowed for man's free will choices in so doing.
I notice however that you have still not addressed the OP, specifically the Bible proof texts and concerning the life of Joseph.

I will make a point that I have made at least six time on this board over the years, but maybe not since you joined so here I go again.

John 6:37. 'All that the Father gives Me will come to Me.........' Here is your Particular Redemption. The Father has, in eternity past (Ephesians 1:4-5) given to the Son a certain number of people to redeem, and this He has done by paying the penalty for their sins upon the cross. Not one of these people will fail to be saved; their salvation is absolutely certain (irresistible grace). I might add that the great truth of this is repeated in John 6:39; 10:29, and no fewer that seven times in John 17, verses 2, 6 (twice), 9, 11, 12, 24.
'.........And the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.' And here is your universal call. Whoever comes to Christ, be he never so wicked, will not be turned away. I can preach Revelation 22:17 with absolute confidence and sincerity, because Christ will not cast out anyone who comes to Him in sincerity. But when he comes, and is found on the Last Day before the throne of God in the great crowd of Revelation 7:9-10, he will know that it is because God loved him with an everlasting love, given him to Christ to redeem, and drawn him with lovingkindness by the Holy Spirit who has also sealed him until the Day of Redemption. Well might he sing with the others in that great throng, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb!"

 

[Silverhair]

Indeed, God is in control. All of man's decisions fall under his preview. No decision of man could come about without God allowing. A good example is Balaam. Balaam attempted to make a decision in which God said "No." Balaam therefore could not do as he willed. His will was only free to act within the confines of God's parameters and no farther. This is true for all humans. Human decisions always fall within the parameters God defines and are not free to act beyond that parameter. Thus we state that free will does not exist. If it did, then man would determine his own parameters. Man does not and cannot do such a thing. Man's choices are always under the determined will of God.

Are you now ready to admit your misunderstanding? Or are you still going to promote the untenable theory of free will?

So glad you finally admit what I have been saying all along.

As you have stated "Human decisions always fall within the parameters God defines and are not free to act beyond that parameter. Thus we state that free will does not exist." This is your clear statement of the false Calvinist theology re Gods' sovereignty.

If as you have stated so clearly, man has no free will then it does not matter what parameters God has set, we still have to do all that He has decreed which as you have shown has to include sin. Your idea of how God has to be to be sovereign is the trap you place yourself in.

When will you admit that God does not have to control all choices in order to be sovereign. You are afraid to let God be God.

 

[Silverhair]

You have answered the question that you asked me. That is exactly what the Confession is saying. God has ordained whatsoever things come to pass, and has allowed for man's free will choices in so doing.
I notice however that you have still not addressed the OP, specifically the Bible proof texts and concerning the life of Joseph.

I will make a point that I have made at least six time on this board over the years, but maybe not since you joined so here I go again.

John 6:37. 'All that the Father gives Me will come to Me.........' Here is your Particular Redemption. The Father has, in eternity past (Ephesians 1:4-5) given to the Son a certain number of people to redeem, and this He has done by paying the penalty for their sins upon the cross. Not one of these people will fail to be saved; their salvation is absolutely certain (irresistible grace). I might add that the great truth of this is repeated in John 6:39; 10:29, and no fewer that seven times in John 17, verses 2, 6 (twice), 9, 11, 12, 24.
'.........And the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.' And here is your universal call. Whoever comes to Christ, be he never so wicked, will not be turned away. I can preach Revelation 22:17 with absolute confidence and sincerity, because Christ will not cast out anyone who comes to Him in sincerity. But when he comes, and is found on the Last Day before the throne of God in the great crowd of Revelation 7:9-10, he will know that it is because God loved him with an everlasting love, given him to Christ to redeem, and drawn him with lovingkindness by the Holy Spirit who has also sealed him until the Day of Redemption. Well might he sing with the others in that great throng, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb!"

Martin I must admit the I am surprised that you would miss quote me like you did. When you take words out of context then you have miss quoted. Since you do not want to have an honest exchange of views i will bit you adieu.



Martin I have to admit I thought

 

[AustinC]

So glad you finally admit what I have been saying all along.

As you have stated "Human decisions always fall within the parameters God defines and are not free to act beyond that parameter. Thus we state that free will does not exist." This is your clear statement of the false Calvinist theology re Gods' sovereignty.

If as you have stated so clearly, man has no free will then it does not matter what parameters God has set, we still have to do all that He has decreed which as you have shown has to include sin. Your idea of how God has to be to be sovereign is the trap you place yourself in.

When will you admit that God does not have to control all choices in order to be sovereign. You are afraid to let God be God.

It means that man has a will, but that will is not free. It is held within the confines of its capacity. Thus, humans are not capable of choosing God as their Savior. Why? Because humans are in rebellion against God by their very nature. Humans, who are dead in sin, must be made alive by God in order to be saved. Dead people do not have the capacity to make themselves alive. They have no free will.
A chicken in a cage has no capacity to function outside of the cage... it's in a cage. No matter how hard it tries... it's still in a cage. Its will is not free.
Humans are enslaved in sin. They are not free. There will is not free.

 

[Silverhair]

It means that man has a will, but that will is not free. It is held within the confines of its capacity. Thus, humans are not capable of choosing God as their Savior. Why? Because humans are in rebellion against God by their very nature. Humans, who are dead in sin, must be made alive by God in order to be saved. Dead people do not have the capacity to make themselves alive. They have no free will.
A chicken in a cage has no capacity to function outside of the cage... it's in a cage. No matter how hard it tries... it's still in a cage. Its will is not free.
Humans are enslaved in sin. They are not free. There will is not free.

Austin you see total depravity as total inability. But you have overlooked Joh 18:8-9 the Holy Spirit convicts, Act_17:27 we can seek and perhaps reach out for Him, Joh_7:17 we can choose to do Gods' will, or Heb_11:6 those that seek Him must believe He exists. All these indicate free will. Man has the God given free will so that they can and some do freely seek and find Him.
God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do.

God created humans in his image. (Gen_1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will.

To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deu_30:19-20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”—Isa_48:18.

Our success or failure is not determined by fate. Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”—because we want to.—Mat_22:37.

God is in control/sovereign but He does not have to be controlling via meticulous decrees.

 

[AustinC]

Austin you see total depravity as total inability. But you have overlooked Joh 18:8-9 the Holy Spirit convicts, Act_17:27 we can seek and perhaps reach out for Him, Joh_7:17 we can choose to do Gods' will, or Heb_11:6 those that seek Him must believe He exists. All these indicate free will. Man has the God given free will so that they can and some do freely seek and find Him.
God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do.

God created humans in his image. (Gen_1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will.

To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deu_30:19-20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”—Isa_48:18.

Our success or failure is not determined by fate. Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”—because we want to.—Mat_22:37.

God is in control/sovereign but He does not have to be controlling via meticulous decrees.

Silverhair, you have created a philosophy wrapped around a concept, but the verses you reference do not teach free will. In fact you have created prooftexts, out of context, to support your pretext.

I encourage you to look at the context of all the verses you have claimed and show us how the context is about free will.

I have shown you Balaam. He could do nothing outside of the determined will of God. I can point to Satan who had to receive God's permission to touch Job. Look at Habakkuk and see that God raised up the Chaldeans to do His will.
While God gives you these glimpses of His Sovereignty, you seem to brush them away and think that God doesn't do this with all His creation. You seem to think like a Deist who imagined God as sleeping.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Austin you see total depravity as total inability. But you have overlooked Joh 18:8-9 the Holy Spirit convicts, Act_17:27 we can seek and perhaps reach out for Him, Joh_7:17 we can choose to do Gods' will, or Heb_11:6 those that seek Him must believe He exists. All these indicate free will. Man has the God given free will so that they can and some do freely seek and find Him.
God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do.

God created humans in his image. (Gen_1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will.

To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deu_30:19-20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”—Isa_48:18.

Our success or failure is not determined by fate. Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”—because we want to.—Mat_22:37.

God is in control/sovereign but He does not have to be controlling via meticulous decrees.

Austin is not interested in what the Bible actually says, so best not to waste your time with him

 

[AustinC]

Austin is not interested in what the Bible actually says, so best not to waste your time with him

LOL [emoji23][emoji1787][emoji23][emoji1787]

sbw isn't interested in the whole of scripture, which is why he looks for prooftexts he can "adjust."

 

[Silverhair]

Austin is not interested in what the Bible actually says, so best not to waste your time with him

I have noticed that Austin is very good at saying other people get it wrong but has a real problem seeing where the bible shows that he is wrong. But that does seem to be a major problem for many of those that follow Calvin. Oh well.

 

[AustinC]

I have noticed that Austin is very good at saying other people get it wrong but has a real problem seeing where the bible shows that he is wrong. But that does seem to be a major problem for many of those that follow Calvin. Oh well.

I can read what the Bible says. I disagree with your philosophy which you have created to force the Bible to fit you.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1

yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.

Martin you say The writers of the 1689 Confession have specifically refuted the question.

I still have not seen a rational answer to how God can decree freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass and yet the LBCF & WCF & Calvinists say He does not author sin. Does sin not fall under ALL THINGS?

Why are you so determined to defend those men yet you will throw God under the bus.

I do not expect you to answer this post but you should take a serious look at the foundation of your Calvinist views.

I will have one more go at this, tho' I consider my post #44 a perfectly adequate and fair reply.

I want to consider two verses out of dozens that I might have chosen. The first is 1 Kings 22:34. God had previously, through Micaiah, forecast the death of Ahab (1 Kings 22:28) and Ahab had therefore disguised himself to avoid being attacked personally by the Syrians (v.30). So this Syrian soldier fires off a random shot, without any idea the arrow was going or where Ahab was, and just happens to hit him between the joints of his armour. What does God have to arrange for that to happen?
Well, the soldier has to be within bowshot range of Ahab, and to point his bow in a certain precise direction without any idea why. The bow has to be of just the right quality to make sure that the arrow reaches the target. The bowstring has to be taut enough, and the wind has to be in exactly the right direction and of exactly the right strength to carry the arrow to Ahab and not overshoot or undershoot. An inch off in any direction, and the arrow would have bounced harmlessly off Ahab's armour. The soldier has not given a single thought to any of this. It is God who micromanages the whole event.

The second one is Matthew 10:29. Not one sparrow dies outside of God's will. Think what that means! It means that the activity of every predator of sparrows - cats, stoats, weasels, hawks, buzzards, whatever - is controlled by God. None of them can catch a sparrow without God's permission! And it would be ridiculous to suppose that what applies to sparrows does not apply to all other birds - robins, wrens, falcons, eagles, and of course, game birds like pheasants and partridges. The hunter who goes out with his gun to bag a brace of pheasants will only do so if God has ordained it. If you think that's too hard for God or beneath His dignity, then your conception of Him is too small. That is what the Bible teaches.

And if birds, why not men and women? 'You are of more value than many sparrows.' God has measured the days of every man woman and child upon the earth (Psalms 139:16). Great men of God like David Brainard and Robert Murray McCheyne died young while some wicked men live to a great age in wealth and comfort (Job 21:7ff). Why? Because God has ordained it so. Many wise and intelligent men never find Christ and die in their sins (1 Corinthians 1:26) while sometimes notorious sinners are saved (1 Timothy 1:15). Why? Because God has ordained it so. Is that wrong of God? On the contrary, He is to be praised for it (Matthew 11:25-26).

 

[Silverhair]

I will have one more go at this, tho' I consider my post #44 a perfectly adequate and fair reply.

I want to consider two verses out of dozens that I might have chosen. The first is 1 Kings 22:34. God had previously, through Micaiah, forecast the death of Ahab (1 Kings 22:28) and Ahab had therefore disguised himself to avoid being attacked personally by the Syrians (v.30). So this Syrian soldier fires off a random shot, without any idea the arrow was going or where Ahab was, and just happens to hit him between the joints of his armour. What does God have to arrange for that to happen?
Well, the soldier has to be within bowshot range of Ahab, and to point his bow in a certain precise direction without any idea why. The bow has to be of just the right quality to make sure that the arrow reaches the target. The bowstring has to be taut enough, and the wind has to be in exactly the right direction and of exactly the right strength to carry the arrow to Ahab and not overshoot or undershoot. An inch off in any direction, and the arrow would have bounced harmlessly off Ahab's armour. The soldier has not given a single thought to any of this. It is God who micromanages the whole event.

The second one is Matthew 10:29. Not one sparrow dies outside of God's will. Think what that means! It means that the activity of every predator of sparrows - cats, stoats, weasels, hawks, buzzards, whatever - is controlled by God. None of them can catch a sparrow without God's permission! And it would be ridiculous to suppose that what applies to sparrows does not apply to all other birds - robins, wrens, falcons, eagles, and of course, game birds like pheasants and partridges. The hunter who goes out with his gun to bag a brace of pheasants will only do so if God has ordained it. If you think that's too hard for God or beneath His dignity, then your conception of Him is too small. That is what the Bible teaches.

And if birds, why not men and women? 'You are of more value than many sparrows.' God has measured the days of every man woman and child upon the earth (Psalms 139:16). Great men of God like David Brainard and Robert Murray McCheyne died young while some wicked men live to a great age in wealth and comfort (Job 21:7ff). Why? Because God has ordained it so. Many wise and intelligent men never find Christ and die in their sins (1 Corinthians 1:26) while sometimes notorious sinners are saved (1 Timothy 1:15). Why? Because God has ordained it so. Is that wrong of God? On the contrary, He is to be praised for it (Matthew 11:25-26).

I am not questioning if God can and does arrange things to happen. You still will not answer my question. How do you bring these two contradictory ideas together?

The LBCF states:
God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1

yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.

Martin you say The writers of the 1689 Confession have specifically refuted the question.

No Martin all they have done is say on one hand God decrees ALL THINGS then say, oops can't have Him responsible for sin so we better add that He is not. They could say God decrees all things or have Him not the author of sin but not both in the same sentence. The logic of the whole sentence is wrong.

They start with the premise that sovereign means absolute divine meticulous control. But that is not what the bible shows. God has given man a free will, if you say man has no free will then the only other option is that God controls all things and thus controls and causes all sin.

Martin I can see that you have to defend your Calvinist view and the LBCF but I have looked them over and what I see are God dishonoring texts.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

I am a baptist from a line of baptist ministers and I have always be taught that God, the Holy Spirit, will guide me into a clear understanding of His word. Our salvation does not depend upon following Calvin or anyone else. We are saved because of our faith in Christ Jesus.

When we stand before Jesus at the judgement we will be asked the same question Peter was. "Who do you say that I am?" I am sure we will both answer the same way.

 

[AustinC]

I don't understand Silverhairs obsession with questioning how God can be fully Sovereign and not be the author of sin. Is it that he requires God to give him all understanding of the entirety of God?
Paul is perfectly comfortable with paradox as is Jesus himself.

 

[Silverhair]

I don't understand Silverhairs obsession with questioning how God can be fully Sovereign and not be the author of sin. Is it that he requires God to give him all understanding of the entirety of God?
Paul is perfectly comfortable with paradox as is Jesus himself.

Since none of you will answer a simple question re Gods decree and your not seeming to realize it would make Him the author of sin.

Here are just a few quotes for you to look over, then tell me that Calvinism does not make God the author of sin/evil.

[N]othing happens accidentally or apart from the just decree of God” ~Theodore Beza
Muller, Christ and the Decree, 84.

“If God had not determined its existence, it could not have had being; unless we suppose sin to be greater than God.” ~William Tucker
Tucker, Predestination, L. xvii, 124, Source: Benson, The Revival and Rejection of an Old Traditional Heresy, 92.

“[N]othing happens accidentally or apart from the just decree of God” ~Theodore Beza
Muller, Christ and the Decree, 84

“If God did not foreordain all things, then he could not know the future. God foreknows and knows all things because He decreed all things to be.” ~Arthur W. Pink
West, The Baptist Examiner, 5.

“Nothing comes to pass contrary to his decree. Nothing happens by chance. Even moral evil, which he abhors and forbids, occurs ‘by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God.’” ~William Shedd

Shedd, Calvinism: Pure and Mixed, 37.

“The Sovereignty of God over all, and his in-dependency, clearly shew, that whatever is done in time is according to his decrees in eternity.” ~John Gill
Gill, A Body of Doctrinal and Practical Divinity, 173.

“God did certainly decree from the beginning everything which should befall the race of man.” ~John Calvin
John Calvin, Concerning the Secret Providence of God, 266, Source: Vance, The Other Side of Calvinism, 288.

Jonathan Edwards states the logical conclusion that, “The eternal decree is the cause of the necessary futurition of evil acts, for the acts inevitably follow on the decree.”He also says, “If God by his decree did force men’s wills, and so necessitate them to be vicious and wicked, then he might justly be called the Author of Sin.”
Jonathan Edwards, On the Decrees, Book I, Ch. 3, 125, Source: Benson, The Revival and Rejection of an Old Traditional Heresy, 41.

I am sure you will try to twist these quotes to make Calvinism sound virtuous but the reality is that what it shows is that Calvinism makes God the primary cause of sin and evil.

As I said before Calvinists seem to be more concerned about protecting the LBCF and Calvinism than they are about the character of God. Sad really.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I am not questioning if God can and does arrange things to happen. You still will not answer my question. How do you bring these two contradictory ideas together?

As I've said several times before, I don't. The Bible teaches both things; therefore I believe them both. God is utterly sovereign (e.g. Job 42:2), yet God is not the author of evil (e.g. Deuteronomy 32:4). Why can you not accept that? You should be following Job and repenting in dust and ashes (Job 42:6).
Let me spell this out one more time. Because you and I cannot understand how God can do something, that doesn't mean that He cannot do it. As I also said before, Romans 11:33-36 applies.

 

[AustinC]

Since none of you will answer a simple question re Gods decree and your not seeming to realize it would make Him the author of sin.

Here are just a few quotes for you to look over, then tell me that Calvinism does not make God the author of sin/evil.

[N]othing happens accidentally or apart from the just decree of God” ~Theodore Beza
Muller, Christ and the Decree, 84.

“If God had not determined its existence, it could not have had being; unless we suppose sin to be greater than God.” ~William Tucker
Tucker, Predestination, L. xvii, 124, Source: Benson, The Revival and Rejection of an Old Traditional Heresy, 92.

“[N]othing happens accidentally or apart from the just decree of God” ~Theodore Beza
Muller, Christ and the Decree, 84

“If God did not foreordain all things, then he could not know the future. God foreknows and knows all things because He decreed all things to be.” ~Arthur W. Pink
West, The Baptist Examiner, 5.

“Nothing comes to pass contrary to his decree. Nothing happens by chance. Even moral evil, which he abhors and forbids, occurs ‘by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God.’” ~William Shedd

Shedd, Calvinism: Pure and Mixed, 37.

“The Sovereignty of God over all, and his in-dependency, clearly shew, that whatever is done in time is according to his decrees in eternity.” ~John Gill
Gill, A Body of Doctrinal and Practical Divinity, 173.

“God did certainly decree from the beginning everything which should befall the race of man.” ~John Calvin
John Calvin, Concerning the Secret Providence of God, 266, Source: Vance, The Other Side of Calvinism, 288.

Jonathan Edwards states the logical conclusion that, “The eternal decree is the cause of the necessary futurition of evil acts, for the acts inevitably follow on the decree.”He also says, “If God by his decree did force men’s wills, and so necessitate them to be vicious and wicked, then he might justly be called the Author of Sin.”
Jonathan Edwards, On the Decrees, Book I, Ch. 3, 125, Source: Benson, The Revival and Rejection of an Old Traditional Heresy, 41.

I am sure you will try to twist these quotes to make Calvinism sound virtuous but the reality is that what it shows is that Calvinism makes God the primary cause of sin and evil.

As I said before Calvinists seem to be more concerned about protecting the LBCF and Calvinism than they are about the character of God. Sad really.

Your assertion, that a fully Sovereign God makes God the author and cause of sin is a creation of your own philosophy. You cannot have a Sovereign God when you demand your own sovereignty via human free will that makes man the ruler of his universe.

 

[AustinC]

As I've said several times before, I don't. The Bible teaches both things; therefore I believe them both. God is utterly sovereign (e.g. Job 42:2), yet God is not the author of evil (e.g. Deuteronomy 32:4). Why can you not accept that? You should be following Job and repenting in dust and ashes (Job 42:6).
Let me spell this out one more time. Because you and I cannot understand how God can do something, that doesn't mean that He cannot do it. As I also said before, Romans 11:33-36 applies.

To your bolded question...I suggest it is the pride of man that will not accept God's sovereignty. Even as redeemed children our flesh naturally fights to rule and place God in a box of our own making. When man cannot box God in it leads to subtle accusation of God that he is the cause of human sin.