The True Sabbath and the Millennial Rest Foreshadowed

[christiang]

Did you read what you posted?

For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.
​

Is circumcision a commandment? If so, what is Paul actually saying here? It not about circumcision, its about jew and gentile. He used these terms to differentiate the two people groups.

Who are the evil doers in the first verse? Judaizers - those who seek to enslave you to oral law. They even have a right of re-circumcision if it wasn't done through them.

Deu 4:2 “Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take away from it, so as to guard the commands of יהוה your Elohim which I am commanding you​

(this is what wickedness is)

And still your refuse to come to understanding,

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Let me repeat this verse a couple more times, maybe it'll penetrate your stubborn mind.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

 

[Jason1]

And still your refuse to come to understanding,

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Let me repeat this verse a couple more times, maybe it'll penetrate your stubborn mind.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision.

You still need to read this in context. Continue on a few verses later and:

1Co 7:23 You were bought with a price, do not become slaves of men.
​

As with Paul's other letters he is contrasting oral law (the circumcision) and the entering gentiles (uncircumcision). If you are called from the gentiles into covenant, don't seek to enter through judaism (circumsion). I'll repost a verse you already posted in this passage:

1Co 7:19 The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Elohim does matter!
​

Circumcision is a commandment:

Gen_17:11 “And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall become a sign of the covenant between Me and you.
Gen 17:12 “And a son of eight days is circumcised by you, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with silver from any foreigner who is not of your seed.
Gen 17:13 “He who is born in your house, and he who is bought with your silver, has to be circumcised. So shall My covenant be in your flesh, for an everlasting covenant.
​

Circumcision was always of the heart also:

Deu_10:16 “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.
Deu_30:6 “And יהוה your Elohim shall circumcise your heart and the heart of your seed, to love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being, so that you might live,

​

 

[christiang]

You still need to read this in context. Continue on a few verses later and:

1Co 7:23 You were bought with a price, do not become slaves of men.
​

As with Paul's other letters he is contrasting oral law (the circumcision) and the entering gentiles (uncircumcision). If you are called from the gentiles into covenant, don't seek to enter through judaism (circumsion). I'll repost a verse you already posted in this passage:

1Co 7:19 The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Elohim does matter!
​

Circumcision is a commandment:

Gen_17:11 “And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall become a sign of the covenant between Me and you.
Gen 17:12 “And a son of eight days is circumcised by you, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with silver from any foreigner who is not of your seed.
Gen 17:13 “He who is born in your house, and he who is bought with your silver, has to be circumcised. So shall My covenant be in your flesh, for an everlasting covenant.
​

Circumcision was always of the heart also:

Deu_10:16 “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.
Deu_30:6 “And יהוה your Elohim shall circumcise your heart and the heart of your seed, to love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being, so that you might live,

​

Circumcision is not an everlasting covenant, it is an aeonial covenant. I suggest you read this study on the Hebrew word "olam" that has been mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" Aeonial is Not Eternal, Aeons, and the Mistranslation of Forever and Ever | Wisdom of God . I am done debating with you, because you truly are very stubborn and hard of heart, and at this point you're just wasting my time now, when I have been trying to educate you on the correct way in light of scripture. Your error is quite apparent in that you blatantly and willfully ignore the writings of the apostles that circumcision of the flesh was done away with.

 

[Jason1]

Circumcision is not an everlasting covenant, it is an aeonial covenant. I suggest you read this study on the Hebrew word "olam" that has been mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" Aeonial is Not Eternal, Aeons, and the Mistranslation of Forever and Ever | Wisdom of God . I am done debating with you, because you truly are very stubborn and hard of heart, and at this point you're just wasting my time now, when I have been trying to educate you on the correct way in light of scripture. Your error is quite apparent in that you blatantly and willfully ignore the writings of the apostles that circumcision of the flesh was done away with.

Trying to educate someone in falsehood is indeed a vain effort. It is satan who tries to change the words of Elohim.

These should be abundantly clear for anyone without a false agenda to see:

Mat 5:18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done
Deu 4:2 “Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take away from it, so as to guard the commands of יהוה your Elohim which I am commanding you.
Deu 12:32 “All the words I am commanding you, guard to do it – do not add to it nor take away from it.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to His Words, Lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.​

 

[HankD]

Trying to educate someone in falsehood is indeed a vain effort. It is satan who tries to change the words of Elohim.

These should be abundantly clear for anyone without a false agenda to see:

Mat 5:18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done
Deu 4:2 “Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take away from it, so as to guard the commands of יהוה your Elohim which I am commanding you.
Deu 12:32 “All the words I am commanding you, guard to do it – do not add to it nor take away from it.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to His Words, Lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.​

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

 

[Jason1]

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Act 15:19 “Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the gentiles who are turning to Elohim,
Act 15:20 but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 “For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath.”

Now what in the world does this mean Hank? Do gentiles just have to do 4 things and nothing else? If so, then apparently it is ok to steal, kill and destroy. But we know that can't true. The 4 prohibitions is what is required to enter the assembly and then they learn each sabbath as the torah is read what Elohim requires of them.

The other men were saying they must first be circumcised and keep all the torah before entering in (judaism's way). This put up a road block because of the steep cost of joining and it would have hindered the message. Faith is a growing process.

 

[HankD]

Act 15:19 “Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the gentiles who are turning to Elohim,
Act 15:20 but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 “For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath.”

Now what in the world does this mean Hank? Do gentiles just have to do 4 things and nothing else? If so, then apparently it is ok to steal, kill and destroy. But we know that can't true. The 4 prohibitions is what is required to enter the assembly and then they learn each sabbath as the torah is read what Elohim requires of them.

The other men were saying they must first be circumcised and keep all the torah before entering in (judaism's way). This put up a road block because of the steep cost of joining and it would have hindered the message. Faith is a growing process.

you either walk in the Spirit or follow the Law of Moses.

Choose.

HankD

 

[Jason1]

you either walk in the Spirit or follow the Law of Moses.

Choose.

HankD

Its the same thing, just as law and grace always go hand in hand.

Don't believe me? Who is the spirit given to? What does it do?

 

[christiang]

Trying to educate someone in falsehood is indeed a vain effort. It is satan who tries to change the words of Elohim.

These should be abundantly clear for anyone without a false agenda to see:

Mat 5:18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done
Deu 4:2 “Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take away from it, so as to guard the commands of יהוה your Elohim which I am commanding you.
Deu 12:32 “All the words I am commanding you, guard to do it – do not add to it nor take away from it.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to His Words, Lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.​

This is you,

And the LORD said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people. (Exodus 32:9 [ESV])

“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. (Acts 7:51 [ESV])

 

[christiang]

Trying to educate someone in falsehood is indeed a vain effort. It is satan who tries to change the words of Elohim.

These should be abundantly clear for anyone without a false agenda to see:

Mat 5:18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done
Deu 4:2 “Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take away from it, so as to guard the commands of יהוה your Elohim which I am commanding you.
Deu 12:32 “All the words I am commanding you, guard to do it – do not add to it nor take away from it.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to His Words, Lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.​

This is you,

And the LORD said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people. (Exodus 32:9 [ESV])

“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. (Acts 7:51 [ESV])

 

[Jason1]

This is you,

And the LORD said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people. (Exodus 32:9 [ESV])

“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. (Acts 7:51 [ESV])

Again, you are taking verses out of context:

Deu 31:26 “Take this Book of the Torah, and you shall place it beside the ark of the covenant of יהוה your Elohim, and it shall be there as a witness against you,
Deu 31:27 for I myself know your rebellion and your stiff neck. See, while I am still alive with you today, you have been rebellious against יהוה, then how much more after my death?
​

A stiff necked person does not listen to the command of YHVH (such as not keeping sabbath). A circumcized heart is one that obeys:

Deu 30:6 “And יהוה your Elohim shall circumcise your heart and the heart of your seed, to love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being, so that you might live,
​

Here we see that loving YHVH is a circucised heart. Here is what love is:

Joh_14:15 “If you love Me, you shall guard My commands

Deu 6:5 “And you shall love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.
Deu 6:6 “And these Words which I am commanding you today shall be in your heart,
​

So in conclusion, it is lawbreakers who are uncircucised in heart and are stiff necked. They are in rebellion against YHVH.

 

[HankD]

Its the same thing, just as law and grace always go hand in hand.

Don't believe me? Who is the spirit given to? What does it do?

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

HankD

 

[Jason1]

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

HankD

Correct, you're not under the condemnation of it because you are following the torah. Does that make more sense?

 

[HankD]

Correct, you're not under the condemnation of it because you are following the torah. Does that make more sense?

Full circle: Acts 15
...
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
...
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Read the whole of Acts chapter 15 folks, Jason follows The Hebraic Roots Movement (HRM) Which is a throwback to The Radio Church of God an offshoot of the non-trinitarian teacher Herbert W Armstrong.

They try to do a fallacious logical tap dance around Acts 15 to say that it really doesn't say what it says as do all judaizing cultists.

The Hebraic Roots Movement part one

HankD

 

[Jason1]

Full circle: Acts 15
...
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
...
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Read the whole of Acts chapter 15 folks, Jason follows The Hebraic Roots Movement (HRM) Which is a throwback to The Radio Church of God an offshoot of the non-trinitarian teacher Herbert W Armstrong.

They try to do a fallacious logical tap dance around Acts 15 to say that it really doesn't say what it says as do all judaizing cultists.

The Hebraic Roots Movement part one

HankD

Its not the hebrew roots movement fault that modern christians don't understand there are two laws in conflict at this time: Man's law (oral) and Elohim's law (written). It is so hard for people to see this for some reason. Probably because the word "law" is used for both and a total lack of understanding of the culture at that time.

Taking the whole of scripture makes it clear: We are to obey every word that comes from the mouth of the Father.

Anyone saying otherwise speaks the words of satan.

 

[christiang]

Full circle: Acts 15
...
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
...
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Read the whole of Acts chapter 15 folks, Jason follows The Hebraic Roots Movement (HRM) Which is a throwback to The Radio Church of God an offshoot of the non-trinitarian teacher Herbert W Armstrong.

They try to do a fallacious logical tap dance around Acts 15 to say that it really doesn't say what it says as do all judaizing cultists.

The Hebraic Roots Movement part one

HankD

Don't argue with him, he's stubborn and seared shut, no matter what plain scriptures you show him to prove that he is wrong, he will not listen. He will keep hollering out "context", and go completely off on a tangent ignoring and discarding the very scriptures that contradict his own teaching,

so that “‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’” (Mark 4:12 [ESV])

If a wise man goes to court with a fool, there will be ranting and raving but no resolution. (Proverbs 29:9 [HCSB])

 

[HankD]

Its not the hebrew roots movement fault that modern christians don't understand there are two laws in conflict at this time: Man's law (oral) and Elohim's law (written). It is so hard for people to see this for some reason. Probably because the word "law" is used for both and a total lack of understanding of the culture at that time.

Taking the whole of scripture makes it clear: We are to obey every word that comes from the mouth of the Father.

Anyone saying otherwise speaks the words of satan.

Actually Jason the problem is that the HRM folks can't read plain English, koine Greek or biblical Hebrew.

They are good at tap dancing however

HankD

 

[HankD]

Don't argue with him, he's stubborn and seared shut, no matter what plain scriptures you show him to prove that he is wrong, he will not listen. He will keep hollering out "context", and go completely off on a tangent ignoring and discarding the very scriptures that contradict his own teaching,

so that “‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’” (Mvationark 4:12 [ESV])

If a wise man goes to court with a fool, there will be ranting and raving but no resolution. (Proverbs 29:9 [HCSB])

Yes, well he has been dealt with before. One of the reasons he should still be dealt with is for the benefit of the others who don't know he is a cultist spinning a deadly web.

HankD

 

[Jason1]

Yes, well he has been dealt with before. One of the reasons he should still be dealt with is for the benefit of the others who don't know he is a cultist spinning a deadly web.

HankD

Deal with me with scripture in context and we should all be happy. The scriptures are contrary to your opinions as noted many many times so far (to both of you).

Don't become one verse wonders

 

[HankD]

Deal with me with scripture in context and we should all be happy.

Why? you claim the law but don't keep it.
When we call you out on it you make a fancy verbal tap dance to negate it.

I'll prove it.
Are you circumcised in the proper manner required by the Torah?

Genesis 17
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

HankD