The two spellings of εἰμί in a third person singlar . . .

[37818]

εἰμί in the Present Indicative Third Person Singlar has two spellings, ἐστί and ἐστιν.

Now the common acepted spelling is now only ἐστιν. And is the more common spelling used
in the texts where both sepllings are used.

I noticed the occurence of the shorter spelling ἐστί where metaphore can be understood in use of the word. Such as "This is my body," "God is light," "Savior, which is Christ the Lord."

Now a question is, are the two spellings, ἐστί and ἐστιν, pronounced the same or differently?

 

[McCree79]

This is a "movable nu".

Εστι(ν)

The "ν" is added to keep from having two vowels run into each other. *[if the word after εστι began with a vowel, εστιν would be used]*

Many Greek texts have standardized the spelling to εστιν. Εστι only occurs once in the NA27 and not at all in the NA28

The Tyndale House Greek, uses εστι frequently.


And no, they are not pronounced the same.

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[37818]

This is a "movable nu".

Εστι(ν)

The "ν" is added to keep from having two vowels run into each other. *[if the word after εστι began with a vowel, εστιν would be used]*

Many Greek texts have standardized the spelling to εστιν. Εστι only occurs once in the NA27 and not at all in the NA28

The Tyndale House Greek, uses εστι frequently.


And no, they are not pronounced the same.

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Ok. Now that makes sense. Other Greek words I have known the vowel to be dropped, such as απο as απ.
Thank you.

 

[Van]

I know "inside baseball" give some a sense of superiority, but really folks, doesn't anyone know where the two variants appear in scripture? Or how about giving the Strong's number? Or perhaps both transliterations? But no...

 

[John of Japan]

Ok. Now that makes sense. Other Greek words I have known the vowel to be dropped, such as απο as απ.
Thank you.

This is very similar to our English contractions, such as "don't" for "do not," etc. It probably happened this way for simplicity of pronunciation. Many languages have similar phonetic changes. I know Japanese does.

 

[John of Japan]

I know "inside baseball" give some a sense of superiority, but really folks, doesn't anyone know where the two variants appear in scripture? Or how about giving the Strong's number? Or perhaps both transliterations? But no...

They have the same Strong's numbers and the same exact meaning . The "movable nu" in Greek does not change meaning in the slightest.

 

[Van]

They have the same Strong's numbers and the same exact meaning . The "movable nu" in Greek does not change meaning in the slightest.

LOL you did not provide the number, the reference to the verses where the variants appear, or the transliteration. More inside baseball.

 

[John of Japan]

LOL you did not provide the number, the reference to the verses where the variants appear, or the transliteration. More inside baseball.

I think I was clear that since these variants do not affect the meaning in any way, shape or form, there was no need to provide references or transliteration. But hey, if you can't hit the inside fastball, don't bemoan the fact to me. Go to the batting cage and practice. So anyway, unless you are studying Greek and have to know it for the test, there is no need for you to know these variants.

I did read somewhere that almost all of the ἐστι (esti) usages in the NT were with the movable nu, so are ἐστιν (estin).

 

[McCree79]

I know "inside baseball" give some a sense of superiority, but really folks, doesn't anyone know where the two variants appear in scripture? Or how about giving the Strong's number? Or perhaps both transliterations? But no...

I have attached a picture showing Acts 18:10. The top is the THGNT, the bottom is the NA28. They both have the same exact meaning as they are both the 3rd person singular of ειμί (eimi). Just a spelling issue.

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[Van]

Thanks for your help, JOJ and McCree. Apparently the variant spelling of G2076 at Acts 18:10 has pretty much disappeared from scripture.

 

[37818]

Thanks for your help, JOJ and McCree. Apparently the variant spelling of G2076 at Acts 18:10 has pretty much disappeared from scripture.

Adding the Greek nu at the end of that verb form for that word in all cases regardles of word following beginning or not beginning with a vowl. We can throw out Matthew 5:18 in this case it would seem.

 

[Van]

I think to throw out jots is fine, but I am unalterably opposed to throwing out tittles. My dog likes them too. And one day last week a bird flew away with two in its beak. It was a Tuesday, or perhaps Wednesday. In any event, it flew right over the cuckoos nest and dropped the larger of the two into it. Just then a wind came up and the tittle just made it into the nest. Perhaps a baby bird will eat it later this month? I think I will name the bird "tittle dee."

 

[John of Japan]

LOL you did not provide the number, the reference to the verses where the variants appear, or the transliteration. More inside baseball.

I just checked, and was surprised to learn that εἰμι (eimi, Strong 1510) and ἐστι(ν) (esti or estin, Strong 2076) actually have different Strong's numbers. However, they are the same verb, just a different "person" (1st person singular and 3rd pers. sing.). So eimi is "I am" (crucial in proving the deity of Christ) and esti(n) is "he/she/it is." As far as I know, Strong did not do that for any other verb, but then this is a crucial verb for exegesis. By the way, that's how we teach the word to beginners, with the nu (ν) in parentheses after the word.

 

[Ziggy]

Strong actually gives separate numbers for about 15 different forms of ειμί. Some Bible software programs have correctly regularized all of these under the one main root #1510.

I think he also does the same for different forms of the personal pronouns, e.g. giving εγώ and μου etc. separate numbers. You can check me on that.

 

[37818]

My interest in the verb in the form esti I had noticed it was being used for metaphor. As it turns out the added nu was only when the word following stared with a vowl. The add of the nu in all cases caused me confusion as to what was going on.

 

[John of Japan]

My interest in the verb in the form esti I had noticed it was being used for metaphor. As it turns out the added nu was only when the word following stared with a vowl. The add of the nu in all cases caused me confusion as to what was going on.

What passage did you find where ἐστι is used for a metaphor?

 

[37818]

What passage did you find where ἐστι is used for a metaphor?

1 John 1:5 light is metaphor for God. 1 John 4:8 love is metaphor for God. Matthew 26:26, "this" which Jesus gave His disciples to eat was metaphor for His body. Now if that verb was not used He would be saying the bread was His body.

 

[John of Japan]

1 John 1:5 light is metaphor for God. 1 John 4:8 love is metaphor for God. Matthew 26:26, "this" which Jesus gave His disciples to eat was metaphor for His body. Now if that verb was not used He would be saying the bread was His body.

Okay, I see. The verb "is" does not form the metaphor, but is necessary for stating the metaphor.

 

[37818]

Okay, I see. The verb "is" does not form the metaphor, but is necessary for stating the metaphor.

Hmm. How does that work? Those who believe transubstantiation do so in part because that verb is used. John 4:24, God is a Spirit and the verb is not used. Remove that verb from 1 John 1:5 and 1 John 4:8.

 

[John of Japan]

Hmm. How does that work? Those who believe transubstantiation do so in part because that verb is used. John 4:24, God is a Spirit and the verb is not used. Remove that verb from 1 John 1:5 and 1 John 4:8.

In NT Greek, you don't always have to have a verb to get the meaning "is." If you use an adjective in the predicate position (no article before the adjective), it is then a "predicate adjective," and you get the meaning of "is." We actually do something similar in conversational English, such as when someone says, "Good man," meaning "He is a good man."

In John 4:24, the verb is not there and you have two nouns, "God" and "spirit."Both nouns are in the nominative case, normally indicating the subject of a sentence, which is also what you have when the verb esti, ἐστι(ν), is there. This formation is called the predicate nominative, and once again you translate it into English with the verb "is."

P. S. The belief in transubstantiation is wrong because it is a very obvious metaphor, not because esti is there or not there. Consider "God is light," ὁ θεος φως ἐστιν. You have the word estin there, but only an idiot would insist that God is a collection of photons. It is an obvious metaphor with or without the verb.