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the unforgivable sin is very logical
- Thread starter The Angel of the South
- Start date
Yesh you can't know for sure who is saved and not saved but read Dr Tom's post #20.
God is our judge as to the things done in the body in His name - as to good or bad.
If you believe these men are doing harm then pray that they will cease or yes that God would even judge them according to the truth.
Indeed He warned us there would be wolves in sheep's clothing and even satan himself like a lion seeking whom to devour.
OP title: "The unforgiveable sin is very logical"
I like logic
The simple answer is better clarified by examining the context
Cycles of Unbelief (Matthew 11:2-30 - Matthew 12:1-50)
1. The occasion: (Matthew 12:22-23) The crowds saw casting out of the demon as a sign of the divine authority of the coming Messiah
2. The Pharisees accusation: Jesus casts out demons by the power of Beelzebul (12:24)
3. Jesus’ response:
I like logic
The simple answer is better clarified by examining the context
Cycles of Unbelief (Matthew 11:2-30 - Matthew 12:1-50)
I. First Collection
a. Unbelief: John the Baptist (11:2-19)
b. Unbelief: The towns of Galilee (11:20-24)
c. Belief: “Come unto me” (11:25-30)
II. Second Collectionb. Unbelief: The towns of Galilee (11:20-24)
c. Belief: “Come unto me” (11:25-30)
a. Unbelief: Sabbath controversy (12:1-8)
b. Unbelief: Sabbath controversy (12:9-14)
c. Belief: “The hope of the Gentiles” (12:15-21)
III. Third Collectionb. Unbelief: Sabbath controversy (12:9-14)
c. Belief: “The hope of the Gentiles” (12:15-21)
a. Unbelief: The unforgivable sin (Mathew 12:22-37)
b. Unbelief: An evil generation (12:38-54)
c. Belief: Jesus’ true family (12:46-50)
b. Unbelief: An evil generation (12:38-54)
c. Belief: Jesus’ true family (12:46-50)
1. The occasion: (Matthew 12:22-23) The crowds saw casting out of the demon as a sign of the divine authority of the coming Messiah
2. The Pharisees accusation: Jesus casts out demons by the power of Beelzebul (12:24)
3. Jesus’ response:
Jesus' first response - Would Satan work against himself?
A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand (vs 25-26)
The sign of driving out demons is a clear sign of Jesus’ Messianic authority – which the crowd had earlier recognized (vs. 23)
Jesus' second question - Who are your exorcists empowered by? (vs 27)The sign of driving out demons is a clear sign of Jesus’ Messianic authority – which the crowd had earlier recognized (vs. 23)
Jesus' clarification - Jesus affirms the real power behind the miracles (vs 28-30) and explains its consequences
“But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.” (vs. 28)
Jesus' third question - “How can someone enter a strong man's house and steal his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.” (vs 29)
Rob
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This is referencing Mathew 12 where it states:
31“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32“Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Verse 31 states the principle as specific to that which is against the Spirit.
Verse 32 gives that such is specific to the Holy Spirit and not to the other parts of the trinity.
Any other statement that does not limit itself to this truth, as told and explained by the Christ to the folks, is just not accurate.
The Angel of the South
New Member
You have given me something new to consider. But there's still the fact that denying the Holy Spirit's conviction to repent makes it impossible to receive forgiveness of your sin. So you think it nevertheless does not mean denying the conviction is an unforgivable sin?
Let me put it this way. If denying the Holy Spirit's conviction is not an unforgivable sin, it is a forgivable sin. How would it or any other sin be forgiven if you have refused to repent and seek forgiveness? There would have to be some other means of receiving forgiveness. Is there?
Yes. It is called regeneration. I rejected the Gospel message, the work of the cross, and the conviction of the Holy Spirit several times before He regenerated my sin sick soul.
Rejection is the default position of mankind. Without the intervention of the Grace of God we would all be forever lost.
Jesus Saves!
Active Member
Any sin that is not under the blood is not forgiven. Christ died, shed his blood, and rose from the grave that we could have remission of sins. He was the final sacrifice and if we turn him away, there's no where else to turn. So, our sin is unpardonable. How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation. If I had kept rejecting Christ while the Holy Spirit was convicting me, there wouldn't have been any way for me to be forgiven. But, praise the Lord I turned to him in faith and repentance and he saved me. Jesus is the only mediator between God and man.
The Angel of the South
New Member
But did He regenerate you before you repented?
We need to consider the warnings to the Hebrews.
The unbelief in Heb. 3 is not unforgivable. Heb. 6 describes those who have been enlightened, etc, falling away to a state where they cannot repent. That reads like a sin that cannot be forgiven in this life, not a final state of unbelief.
Likewise Heb. 10 considers wilful sin after receiving knowledge of the truth, again before death.
Do these passages indicate that saved sinners can turn away & not just be lost, but become in a state where forgiveness & further repentance is impossible?
Does that apply to the warnings to the Hebrews who saw Jesus & his miracle? Those Jews, Jewish leaders including Pharisees & priests, who rejected their Messiah were commanded by the Apostles to repent, & many did. Acts 2:37-42, Acts 4:10-12, Acts 6:7, Acts 15:5.
Or to the Galatian Gentile coverts? Gal. 1:6-9, Gal. 4:8-11, Gal. 5:1-4.
I believe that once we are saved, born of the Holy Spirit, we cannot be lost, but the warnings must be taken seriously. In particular, it would appear that we can have a full assurance of salvation that is false assurance, resulting in those who believed they were saved, and accepted by others as saved, are living in a state of deception to such an extent that turning away renders them unforgivable, beyond repentance.
The unbelief in Heb. 3 is not unforgivable. Heb. 6 describes those who have been enlightened, etc, falling away to a state where they cannot repent. That reads like a sin that cannot be forgiven in this life, not a final state of unbelief.
Heb. 6: 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Likewise Heb. 10 considers wilful sin after receiving knowledge of the truth, again before death.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Do these passages indicate that saved sinners can turn away & not just be lost, but become in a state where forgiveness & further repentance is impossible?
Does that apply to the warnings to the Hebrews who saw Jesus & his miracle? Those Jews, Jewish leaders including Pharisees & priests, who rejected their Messiah were commanded by the Apostles to repent, & many did. Acts 2:37-42, Acts 4:10-12, Acts 6:7, Acts 15:5.
Or to the Galatian Gentile coverts? Gal. 1:6-9, Gal. 4:8-11, Gal. 5:1-4.
I believe that once we are saved, born of the Holy Spirit, we cannot be lost, but the warnings must be taken seriously. In particular, it would appear that we can have a full assurance of salvation that is false assurance, resulting in those who believed they were saved, and accepted by others as saved, are living in a state of deception to such an extent that turning away renders them unforgivable, beyond repentance.
I agree with the OP. This, above, is what I was taught also, but it doesn't follow. The Unforgivable Sin is resisting the Spirit to the point of hardening, preventing one from receiving Christ. This is exactly what the Pharisees did, and others have been doing it ever since. It really is as simple as that.
Well said. Agree, 100%.
Felix and Agrippa.
Acts 24:25 And as he (Paul) reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
I don't see where scripture gives that view. Jesus said speaking against him can be forgiven, but speaking against the Holy Spirit is a sin that will not be forgiven. It was not limited to seeing Jesus in earthly personhood perform miracles and then attribute them to an unclean spirit.
On the other hand, when Peter had his vision of the sheet coming down with the animals that had been forbidden as food, with the Spirit telling him to take and eat any of them he wished, did Peter speak against the Spirit when he said, "Not so, Lord!"?
Nevertheless, can the Holy Spirit not be spoken against at any time in a physical world of sin? In fact, might it not be rampant at many stages? In the Great Awakening, the leaders of established churches, having their numbers and power threatened by evangelists who preach emotionally in open fields and say salvation is not determined by what church one is a member of, said this was "the work of the devil." This same conflict was prevalent a couple of centuries before in the Reformation, and today we see it between pentecostals and nonpentecostals. Are their "miracles" of the Holy Spirit, or are they psychogenic at best, deliberate deception at worst? Would you tell someone who claims to have been healed therein it was of the devil? And then there was Peter Popoff, who had his methods deciphered by Randi, the agnostic skeptic, who determined he was using a radio-in-the-ear to hear people tell of their problems, so he could tell his audience. Is this 'of the devil?'
If the Spirit convicts telling someone that they have sinned and that person says in their heart "I have not sinned" then that person has made God (The Spirit) a liar.
Is that blasphemy-- speaking against-- the Spirit or not?
From my point of view - yes.
indeed. And notice Jesus said all sins will be forgiven except this sin. All except one. It has to be referring to the rejection of Christ. It's the only thing that fits with biblical soteriology. Hebrews 10 seems to be speaking to this as well. A deliberate sin, before salvation but, seemingly after an enlightenment by the Holy Spirit. Jesus seemed to speak to this as well, believe in the light while you have the light.
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Heb. 10:28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenantc that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirite of grace?
I would suggest that anyone concerned that they might have committed the unforgivable sin hasn't - because they are aware of their sin. Still time to REPENT.