The "World"

[AresMan]

Faith is being a baby in the mothers womb. We must be willing to go back as a child in the womb of our mother and Jesus being our mother.

Does a child will to be in the womb of its mother, or does God put him there?

 

[Allan]

Faith is being a baby in the mothers womb. We must be willing to go back as a child in the womb of our mother and Jesus being our mother.

WHAT?? That is...nevermind what that is.

It has nothing to do with the OP - What does the term "world" mean?

 

[psalms109:31]

john

Does a child will to be in the womb of its mother, or does God put him there?

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

 

[psalms109:31]

miss understanding

WHAT?? That is...nevermind what that is.

It has nothing to do with the OP - What does the term "world" mean?

sometimes ppl missunderstyandingof another are brings us to other area to understand the op

 

[psalms109:31]

Question God

We do not question what a word of God means until it goes against our doctrine.

It is hard for men to just believe when they can't comprehend.

An infant has no choice but to trust in it's mother as we should trust in Jesus.

The world means world, we can't change meaning of Gods word to match our doctrine, but to just trust in Jesus

 

[Jarthur001]

You know why some of them were persuaded don't you GordonSlocum? It was God who worked in them to will and to act according to his good purpose. Php 2:13. Salvation is by grace, gratis. I pray one day you can say with me, "But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect."



Opened it up to debate did He GordonSlocum? Think you could reason on level peggings with Him?

John Calvin - Wrong
Jacob Arminius - Wrong
GordonSlocum - Wrong
johnp - right.

johnp.

Jarthur always RIGHT!!!, but only on Mondays

 

[johnp.]

It's a wonder they didn't paste me for my arrogance a James? They must recognise some authority or something. Might be plain contemp though.

john.

 

[HankD]

If He "hates" all workers of iniquity, He hates every human who ever lived. I don't think you have the correct understanding of "sane" and "miseo", the hebrew and greek words we who speak english translate as "hate".

Your logic is flawed. "All workers of iniquity" are those who ultimately reject Christ as Savior. Those who accept Christ are forgiven and are "accepted in the beloved".

HankD

 

[Allan]

And now back to what does the word "world" mean?:BangHead:

 

[johnp.]

And now back to what does the word "world" mean?

It's very simple Allan. If God so loved the world why does He create those He knows are going to Hell? That isn't love is it or if it is in which way can it be termed love?

If God so loved the world why did Israel get cut off? Matt 23:38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

john.

 

[Allan]

It's very simple Allan. If God so loved the world why does He create those He knows are going to Hell? That isn't love is it or if it is in which way can it be termed love?

If God so loved the world why did Israel get cut off? Matt 23:38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

john.

Yes, we know you don't understand Love.

but the question in the OP is about the World - What does the word "world' Mean?

 

[johnp.]

What does the word "world' Mean?

If God so loved the world why does He create those He knows are going to Hell?

If you reject this statement then you will never find out Allan. The question needs to be addressed by free willers otherwise what? Does God create men that He knows are Hell bound? Yes. I asked if this is love and you tell me I don't understand love. Hardly an answer is it?

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that God creates men that He knows are going to Hell isn't love but I don't understand love. Explain it to me Allan, in which way can it be termed love to create people who are going to spend the rest of forever in torment? If you want to understand that word 'world' you are going to have to deal with this fact.

No ones answering this question Allan, you are not alone. God is omniscient isn't He?

john.

 

[Allan]

If God so loved the world why does He create those He knows are going to Hell?

If you reject this statement then you will never find out Allan. The question needs to be addressed by free willers otherwise what? Does God create men that He knows are Hell bound? Yes. I asked if this is love and you tell me I don't understand love. Hardly an answer is it?

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that God creates men that He knows are going to Hell isn't love but I don't understand love. Explain it to me Allan, in which way can it be termed love to create people who are going to spend the rest of forever in torment? If you want to understand that word 'world' you are going to have to deal with this fact.

No ones answering this question Allan, you are not alone. God is omniscient isn't He?

john.

John, you bore me a great deal. I have answered you but you wont listen no matter what it stated because your understanding of scripture lope sided and incorrect. Therefore I will spend no more time answering a question that DOES NOT deal with the OP.

The question isn't "why would..." The question IS what does the word "World' Mean?

 

[johnp.]

John, you bore me a great deal.

Why would I be asking if I have been answered? Why don't you put your reasoning down anyway and then say, "John, you bore me a great deal." ? I cannot understand why you don't want to share your truth all the time. I never get tired giving my stuff out.

Therefore I will spend no more time answering a question that DOES NOT deal with the OP.

But it does deal directly on the meaning of 'world' and the 'world' loved. Is it right that God knows who is going to Hell before He creates them? Yes. Then He does not love everyman so 'world' does not mean all sinners. That must be the conclusion. Or, show me how much love is involved in creating Hell and it's inhabitants please.

This argument shots free will in the head.


john.

 

[HankD]

From the Scripture it seems possible that God can love the world (cosmos) - the race of human sinners - but at the same time hate certain individuals within that world.

When Adam, exercising his "free will" (define as is fitting) sinned and brought death upon the whole world - God, still loving that world, provided (yes even in His foreknowledge and predestination) a way for ALL to be saved from this death.

Those who ultimately reject Him are those who are hated.

So, while salvation is available to all, not all want it, not all will accept.
Salvation is for the benefit of those who are loved, those who accept.

Why try to weave all these elements together (God's Sovereignty, man's reponsibility/"free will") and get something that is completely understandable.

Besides, it hasn't ever happened and it NEVER will:

Ecclesiastes 8:17 Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea further; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.​

One (at least) of the reasons :​

Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

So, why strive with each other over it?

IMO, All this striving suggests that we find fault with God for His creation and how He has done things. Yes, fault, even if we have a carefully manicured theology that appears to fit the puzzle pieces together.

To me it seems that we have a need to justify God.

Genesis 18:25c ... Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?​

Psalm 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.​

HankD​

 

[johnp.]

Hello HankD.

God, still loving that world, provided (yes even in His foreknowledge and predestination) a way for ALL to be saved from this death.

Why would God provide a way for all to be saved when He knew who would reject Him? Why did Jesus die for those that go to Hell?

Those who ultimately reject Him are those who are hated.

Since God creates people He knows are going to Hell why not hate them from forever? Creating someone Hell bound does not sound like love in any sense of the word to me.

So, why strive with each other over it?

Because we are commanded to. JUDE 1:3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.

Why try to weave all these elements together...and get something that is completely understandable...it hasn't ever happened and it NEVER will:

Is that right?

DT 29:29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.
2 Cor 8:7 But just as you excel in everything--in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in your love for us--see that you also excel in this grace of giving.

To me it seems that we have a need to justify God.

I never do that.

john.

 

[HankD]

Hi John,

You have asked "why" concerning God more than once (as rhetorical questions of course).

Humanly speaking "why" is not one of our options when it comes to God.

When we ask "why", generally it means we are not happy with what He has done or is doing. Now He doesn't exactly forbid the question, but what He does and why He does it have a couple of general answers in the Scriptures.

The first one is a kind of admonishment:

Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.​

So that is my answer to your "why" questions: because it pleases Him to do the things He does even if it doesn't make sense to you and/or me.

The second response to "why" is a kind of exhortation:

John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.​

1 John 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.​

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.​

If we don't like our circumstance, or want things to get better, pray.

you cited ... contend for the faith ...
"to contend" and "to strive" are two different things.

Also ... but the things revealed belong to us ...
Of course, as His children we have enlightment about certain things ("the things revealed to us") but there are certain areas where we can never understand the mind of God.

HankD

 

[johnp.]

Hello HankD.

Humanly speaking "why" is not one of our options when it comes to God.

I am not asking God why I am asking you why. Why would God provide a way for all to be saved when He knew who would reject Him? Why did Jesus die for those that go to Hell?

You see what I mean? Are you saying you don't know?

When we ask "why", generally it means we are not happy with what He has done or is doing.

It is? I am reconciled. I'm more than happy with the way He runs the joint. He has my permission to continue.

Of course, as His children we have enlightment about certain things ("the things revealed to us") but there are certain areas where we can never understand the mind of God.

Yes I know, 1 Cor 2:16 ... But we have the mind of Christ.

john.

 

[HankD]

am not asking God why I am asking you why. Why would God provide a way for all to be saved when He knew who would reject Him? Why did Jesus die for those that go to Hell?

You see what I mean? Are you saying you don't know?

In an oblique way you are asking why by asking me. What does it matter anyway it is what it is regardless of what you and I believe.

Besides I thought I gave an answer.

Because it pleases Him for one thing):
It glorifies Him for another.

As to people who are lost, they are also His possession.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
​

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
​

Saved, lost, all will ultimately glorify Him.

Philippians 2:

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
​

HankD

 

[npetreley]

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

That alone should cancel all the free-willer arguments on this board. It won't of course, but it should.