One must carefully discern what terms as world, and all mean in the context of the passage
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The written word of God teaches faith precedes regeneration.
- Thread starter 37818
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If I may interject a question after reading the thread - From where does this "faith" (that man has to be capable of hearing, repenting of sin, and believing the Gospel) originate?
Is this saving faith inherent in every unregenerate man on earth or something given/activated by God? (okay, that's two questions but truly tied to the same point).
Is this saving faith inherent in every unregenerate man on earth or something given/activated by God? (okay, that's two questions but truly tied to the same point).
Blank
Active Member
I usually take God's Word as the source of faith (usually in the form of a promise...
Romans 10:17 NASB95
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
I'm not sure saving faith is in sight here, but maybe at least faith for bodily healing. (I don't know if you can separate the two?)
Blank
Active Member
I'm sorry, I wasn't tracking in a straight line but had another post in mind. (Please disregard this unrelated statement)
@Dr.Bob had said...
I don't think every unregenerate man has some type of latent faith, otherwise all would be saved (because all men are unregenerate at birth).I'll go with the 2nd proposition (in bold).
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I think faith is worked in us in the sense that our hearts must be prepared and brought to faith. But we have to do the believing. Since faith is an acquiescing to God's way of salvation by trusting in the work of Christ and renouncing all of our own works or merit and if you believe that this is not something we would be likely to do on our own then it is a gift. And it originates with God. Even Rome teaches that.
I know most modern Calvinists say regeneration precedes faith. Surprisingly, John Owen hedges on this somewhat. This is because regeneration, which is supernatural, operates so much with and as part of the fabric of our wills there is simply no way to know where exactly our wills are involved and how our wills as they are affected by the Holy Spirit are involved in the changing of our minds as we come to faith.
For a Calvinist, I don't see why the order matters if you believe faith is the result of the work of the Holy Spirit. Usually, when this comes up it is because many believe that regeneration is what is done for you as God responds to the fact that you have believed. While I tend to like John Owen's way of explaining things I have to admit that in John chapter 3 when the idea of being born again is brought up and then Jesus goes into how the Son of Man must be lifted up like the serpent in the wilderness so that anyone could "look and live" - it does seem that look and live is more accurate than live and then look. But then, John 3:8 seems to indicate more going on than our own decision.
Since everyone agrees that our response is to believe and Jesus did not see fit to warn anyone in John 3 that there was some kind of danger of thinking that you could believe without properly understanding the order I would assume it was not something to worry about.
Think it is the work of the Holy Spirit to enables fallen sinners to be able to hear and receive Jesus as Lord, as He grants new hearts and minds and saving faith . If all sinners have inherit faith within them. then it indeed is their own will saving themselves
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Is yet faith, substance ect
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:2
What was; substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, the word of God states that was heard, allowing one to receive the hope of eternal life, eternal salvation?
Is it not?
so also the Christ did not glorify himself to become chief priest, but He who spake unto him: 'My Son thou art, I to-day have begotten thee;' as also in another place He saith, 'Thou art a priest -- to the age, according to the order of Melchisedek;' who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during, [eternal life]
Is it not the faith of Christ that saved us, unto the grace of life?
Did Christ save me or do I need to save myself?
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:2
What was; substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, the word of God states that was heard, allowing one to receive the hope of eternal life, eternal salvation?
Is it not?
so also the Christ did not glorify himself to become chief priest, but He who spake unto him: 'My Son thou art, I to-day have begotten thee;' as also in another place He saith, 'Thou art a priest -- to the age, according to the order of Melchisedek;' who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during, [eternal life]
Is it not the faith of Christ that saved us, unto the grace of life?
Did Christ save me or do I need to save myself?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The folks spoken of in John 3:16 have already been identified in the preceding verses where Jesus explains what it means to be “born again”
He says the “wind” (same Greek word for Spirit) blows “where it wills”, so is everyone born of the Spirit. So, folks are “born again” by the will of God.
This is a repeating theme in John. From John 1 we see those that are the “children of God” are born not by the will of man, nor the will of the flesh, but (born by the will of) God.
The word “world” does not mean every person without exception but rather men (and women) without distinction… ie not just Jews but also Gentiles.
This is also a repeating theme in John where the Pharisees lament the whole world is going after Jesus, and when the disciples tell Jesus that Gentiles want to see Him, He says the time had come for His glorification.
Peace to you
And so that means salvation not act of our will, nor by our good works, nor water baptism etc
Pretty clear and conclusive, yet those who desire to have a part of saving themselves will misread it
37818
Well-Known Member
How? Unless God gives His authority, one doesn't become a child of God.
Unless God chose you from Eternity past to be found found in Christ, stay lost in your sins
37818
Well-Known Member
Do you agree Christ had shed His blood for everyone?
37818
Well-Known Member
1 Timothy 2:5-6, . . . the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . .
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1 Tim 1:13
When did Paul go from being of unbelief to being of belief, that is to being of not of faith to being of faith?
Notice in 1 Tim Paul was injurious being in unbelief and in Acts 9 :13 Ananias did not want to go to Paul because of Paul being injurious.
However what did God tell Ananias?
Did Paul change his own mind or was God through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit going to change the mind of Paul?
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:23.24
Did Paul become, of belief; of faith?
When did Paul go from being of unbelief to being of belief, that is to being of not of faith to being of faith?
Notice in 1 Tim Paul was injurious being in unbelief and in Acts 9 :13 Ananias did not want to go to Paul because of Paul being injurious.
However what did God tell Ananias?
Did Paul change his own mind or was God through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit going to change the mind of Paul?
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:23.24
Did Paul become, of belief; of faith?
except Bible stated that Jesus died for the sins of the Many, not for all