"TheLordOpened HerHeart." Was this Irresistable Grace?

[ILUVLIGHT]

JohnP;

You gave advise that the The book of Wisdom for example is a great source of inspiration and guidance for living which one should ponder long and meditatively! Therefore you accept it as scripture because we should only meditate on the word of God.

This comming from one who rely's on the words of men for his doctrine. Seems rather hypocritical don't you think?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[johnp.]

ILUVLIGHT.

This comming from one who rely's on the words of men for his doctrine. Seems rather hypocritical don't you think?

May be so but I thank you for concurring with me that the wisdom literature is of man. Wes thinks it is worth meditating on.

This comming from one who rely's on the words of men for his doctrine. Seems rather hypocritical don't you think?

Although I would agree with you that hyprocrisy follows us as our shadow I think we can do things that can alleviate the condition if we are honest with ourselves don't you agree?

If there is no adjective then it is all inclusive
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
The word "men" isn't there in the original manuscript but it is obvious that "ALL" is what is meant.

Is it? Or could this be a teaching coming from man? That is the question isn't it. I mean you, without let or hinderance, add 'men' to the scripture then call me a hypocrite for believing in the doctrines of man! Obvious to who? You?
Why don't you answer my question? Did Jesus draw 'all' men or did He not?
If yes then you are in the strange position of saying He drew Himself! If no then it was nor 'all' men was it? Why don't you answer the point?

johnp.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

JohnP;

Is it? Or could this be a teaching coming from man? That is the question isn't it. I mean you, without let or hinderance, add 'men'

I didn't add anything to scripture and neither did the translator. The word "men" is in Italics letting us know that it is only there for gramar.

then call me a hypocrite for believing in the doctrines of man!

I didn't call you anything. Just more false accusations is all we get from someone like you JohnP. This is what I said;
"Seems rather hypocritical don't you think?"
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[johnp.]

ILUVLIGHT.

Seems rather hypocritical don't you think?

Then I apologise. You did not say I was a hypocrite. The question threw me somewhat 'a'?

Just more false accusations is all we get from someone like you JohnP.

I suppose you are now saying I am not a liar then?

"Seems rather hypocritical don't you think?"

What? If a man follows the doctrines of men and he tells another to beware of doctrines of men? I don't think hypocritical actually covers this condition. Sort sighted would be more correct don't you think? I mean that if I was standing on a railway track with a train coming at me and I warned Wes, who is there with me, to get off because a train was coming I would not be hypocritical so much as stupid! Is that not so? Because that is what is going to happen to the hypocriticals don't you think?

I didn't add anything to scripture and neither did the translator.

Why not answer the question then? Why don't you answer my question? Did Jesus draw 'all' men or did He not?
If yes then you are in the strange position of saying He drew Himself! If no then it was not 'all' men was it? Why don't you answer the point?

Obvious you said it was did you not? Answer the obvious then. 'All' men or 'all' other men? Come on boy let's see what your made of.

johnp.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

JohnP;

Obvious you said it was did you not? Answer the obvious then. 'All' men or 'all' other men? Come on boy let's see what your made of.

Oh No the great JohnP has challenged me. I'm so scared. He didn't say either but said He would draw all to Him
Oh Yeah; Hey Wes get off that track! I would have told you the same JohnP but I could tell by your determination that you just wouldn't listen to the truth anyway.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

[johnp.]

ILUVLIGHT.

I would have told you the same JohnP but I could tell by your determination that you just wouldn't listen to the truth anyway.

Seems rather hypocritical don't you think? My determination not to listen to the truth? You like Christ can see my heart? Seems rather hypocritical don't you think?

Oh No the great JohnP has challenged me.

You elevate me! Small j and small p please. I am humble you know.

He didn't say either but said He would draw all to Him

You are confused? He did not say either what? I said that 'man' there has been added and you accept that so you are adding to scripture and you say I didn't add anything to scripture and neither did the translator but you did add men to the scripture because you said it is obvious that it should be there. Now you say, "He didn't say either but said He would draw all to Him"
All what ILUVLIGHT? Jesus would draw all what to Him?

johnp.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

JohnP;

All what ILUVLIGHT? Jesus would draw all what to Him?

The King James Came from your country and yet you don't understand it. go figure.
The word "ALL" is all inclusive don't you know that? It means all the world, everyone.
How is it that you don't understand your own language?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[johnp.]

ILUVLIGHT.

The word "ALL" is all inclusive don't you know that?

Would you be kind enough then to explain to me how Jesus drew Himself please. Thank you.

johnp.

 

[johnp.]

ILUVLIGHT.

The King James Came from your country and yet you don't understand it.

I do not wish to understand ye olde English I have enough problems withe ye newy English.
I asked you a question and you replied with;The word "ALL" is all inclusive don't you know that? So I wanted to know how Jesus drew Himself. An innocent question I think.
Anyway this thing here; The word "ALL" is all inclusive don't you know that? You have made it sound as if I have broken a rule somewhere. Have I erred by not understanding some simple English rule? Is this the same rule that you apply to no one seeks God? Where the 'no one' is rendered by some simple English rule into 'all can though'?

How is it that you don't understand your own language?

I'm working class mate and I do all right for the working classes.

johnp.

 

[mr. messy]

To Johnp.

to quote you: "Hello mr. messy.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to be fair to both sides of the debate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are not a Calvinist then."

Thank you for your comment. My primitive Baptist preacher friend told me the same thing sometime during the time of 1968 to 1986 when he and I were working with the same government agency.

I believe that we can learn from each other.

I am not a debater.

Thanks for reading, Mr. Messy

 

[johnp.]

Hello Mr Messy it's nice to meet you and to know you have good friends.
I believe that we can learn from each other. Might be the beginning of another twenty years!
I am not a debater.
Getting on with people is the outflowing of the love of God. I like to answering questions.

johnp.

 

[Wes Outwest]

What johnp failes to understand about the language is that in the scripture "If I be lifted up I'll draw all men to me". The All is saying of men that ALL of them will be drawn. Now if Jesus had been declaring that "the elect" or "my sheep" instead of "men" johnp would have something to support his point of view by using this scripture but it does not so limit "the drawing". It is instead all inclucive of all mankind.

Guess what? It works just the way Jesus said it would. For 2000 years Jesus has been the central figure for an increasingly large amount of the world's population. It seems the greater the opposition to the Word of God, the greater it's influence becomes.

 

[johnp.]

Wes.

The word "ALL" is all inclusive don't you know that? (ILUVLIGHT.)

The All is saying of men that ALL of them will be drawn.

The same question applies to you; "Would you be kind enough then to explain to me how Jesus drew Himself please. Thank you."

Might be that you will answer this point, after all Jesus is Human is He not?
You must admit that your position is precarious. On the one hand you really must limit the 'drawing' to not 'all' and on the other enlighten us on how Jesus drew Himself. Another simple loser for you.

johnp.

 

[Wes Outwest]

Originally posted by johnp.:
Wes.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The word "ALL" is all inclusive don't you know that? (ILUVLIGHT.)

The All is saying of men that ALL of them will be drawn.

The same question applies to you; "Would you be kind enough then to explain to me how Jesus drew Himself please. Thank you."

Might be that you will answer this point, after all Jesus is Human is He not?
You must admit that your position is precarious. On the one hand you really must limit the 'drawing' to not 'all' and on the other enlighten us on how Jesus drew Himself. Another simple loser for you.

johnp. </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus, is God in human form,

John 1:14. The Word became flesh, he lived among us, and we saw his glory, the glory that he has from the Father as only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jesus was not merely human, He was "divine" man, the Son of the living God, and therefore God himself in the flesh.

Jesus is the 'attractor', the rest of us, who are not "Gods" are the 'attractees' to God the Son, Jesus. He was sent to us by the Father to be the magnet that draws all men back to God the Father who is spirit! He came to us in "our form" so that we would not be afraid of him, but rather attracted to him by his wisdom and his message to mankind, so that we could believe and repent from our evil ways that so displease our creator God. He was also in "our form" so that HE could be "sacrificed" in payment for our sins. For the first time in history, a "man" was sacrificed for the sins of man. In the past, sins of man were "covered over" by animal blood, but God's word says that did not satisfy his wrath against sin. So God who loved us so, gave us his only begotten son, and there will never be another sacrifice for sin because the penalty was paid ONCE FOR ALL.

 

[johnp.]

Wes.

Jesus, is God in human form

Jesus is God is He not? Jesus is Man is He not?

He was sent to us by the Father to be the magnet that draws all men back to God the Father who is spirit!

Not 'all men' Wes, Jesus is a man. All other men you mean? Yes or no.
The same question applies to you; "Would you be kind enough then to explain to me how Jesus drew Himself please. Thank you."
Is the 'all men' all men or will you limit it as you must or deny Christ's humanity.

This is a loser for you on the scale of Eli;

So God who loved us so, gave us his only begotten son, and there will never be another sacrifice for sin because the penalty was paid ONCE FOR ALL.

Whose household was not atoned for! 1 Sam 3:14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "

johnp.

 

[Wes Outwest]

No matter what form God takes, He remains God!

If you insist on the Christ's humanity alone to prove your point you lose.

I don't believe I lost anything regarding the House of Eli. You simply refuse to acknowledge the truth about Jesus' atonement and what it was for.

 

[johnp.]

Wes.

If you insist on the Christ's humanity alone to prove your point you lose.

Is Jesus truly man?

johnp.

 

[Wes Outwest]

Originally posted by johnp.:
Wes.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />If you insist on the Christ's humanity alone to prove your point you lose.

Is Jesus truly man?

johnp. </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus is God the Son who who came to dwell among men (Emanuel). He came in the flesh of a human, so that makes him man, He was conceived of the Spirit of God in the womb of a human female, that makes him God the Son. God in Spirit man in the flesh!

Not a difficult concept for a DDiv candidate.

 

[johnp.]

Wes.

God in Spirit man in the flesh!

Have you divided God? Is Jesus a man or not?
If He is a man then how did He draw Himself and if He is not a man God can't help any of us.

I assure you that it will be easier in the long run to limit the 'all'.

Not a difficult concept for a DDiv candidate.

I did not realise that that was me you meant. I thought you were saying it about Dave! Silly me. Sorry to disappoint you but the highest rank I ever held in Church was cleaning the toilets, setting out the chairs and making the place clean for my brothers and sisters. Caretaker to the Children of God. I would not take a reduction in rank for anything. (That's a boast by the way.)
Does a DDiv candidate end up as Th.D?

johnp.

 

[Wes Outwest]

I assure you that it will be easier in the long run to limit the 'all'.

And COMPROMISE THE TRUTH? Get real DDiv candidate! No true spirit of God would allow you to even think that! So Get thee behind me satan!