There’s Still No Economic Case for New Tariffs

[JonC]

Well is the Chinese car any good? At one time I could have bought a Hugo for $4000.00 but it was a piece of crap. BTW,what’s a Kuboto ? We had several of those tractors on the golf course and they worked fine.

The car is good. They are about the orly rentals I've found in the Caribbean.

 

[JonC]

And then Americans that bought a "Haval Jolion" would have all that money they didn't have to spend a more expensive different vehicle and could spend it for other goods and services, including goods and services provided by fellow Americans.

No, Jon, you are defending a horrible system that uses government power to subsidize some industries and some jobs at the expense of other industries and jobs(including newer, more innovative ones).

Folks like you, Jon, trust the power of government to decide which industries and jobs should thrive, and which industries and jobs should be cut off at the knees.

I trust the billions and billions and billions of decisions of 340 million Americans made yearly in deciding which products and services they want to purchase, free from government coercion.

That's about all they could afford because they'd have lost their jobs to Chineese companies.

The US can't compete and offer a fair wage, utilize safe and responsible practices, and make a profit to maintain business growth.

You are about the only one crying "free-market" to support communism, child labor, unfair work practices, exploitation of workers, and increased US unemployment merely to make the cost of things go down.


By your plan that $11,000 SUV would be out of reach for most Americans, especially those played in the manufacturing business. Cutting the price 80% means little when your income is gone.

 

[KenH]

That's about all they could afford because they'd have lost their jobs to Chineese companies.

False.

The US can't compete and offer a fair wage, utilize safe and responsible practices, and make a profit to maintain business growth.

False.

You are about the only one crying "free-market" to support communism, child labor, unfair work practices, exploitation of workers, and increased US unemployment merely to make the cost of things go down.

False.

By your plan that $11,000 SUV would be out of reach for most Americans, especially those played in the manufacturing business. Cutting the price 80% means little when your income is gone.

False.

 

[KenH]

@JonC, I suggest you go read about the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act and about the Great Depression.

 

[Reynolds]

I don’t believe that. Who is promoting this, Peter Nivero? concentrate on getting the economy in line, the oil flowing again, and getting Tom Holman support in ridding towns across America from illegials as was promised. Oh and let’s see if we couldn’t prosecute creeps like Biden & Son, Fauci etc. That’s what I expect from Trump

And along with that, you will get tariffs.

 

[KenH]

Tariffs will raise prices. During the recent presidential campaign, the MAGA was howling to skies about prices being raised. Are they going to praise higher prices with "their guy" in charge?

 

[JonC]

@JonC, I suggest you go read about the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act and about the Great Depression.

I know about the SmootHawley Act and the Reciprocal Tariff Act that followed.

It is funny that tariffs have been implemented very successfully in the US but the only thing pro-socialists bring up is the Smoot-Hawley Tariffs (which was bad). It's like they have no sence, always looking to extremes.


I suggest you read about the reasons the US has used tariffs beyond protective measures (beyond the Smoot-Hawley Act).

 

[JonC]

Tariffs will raise prices. During the recent presidential campaign, the MAGA was howling to skies about prices being raised. Are they going to praise higher prices with "their guy" in charge?

The tariffs will raise prices on some imported goods. That's why US car companies are still in business.

If some had their way they'd buy from countries that exploit their citizens to safe a buck. But we can't fix that type of mentality. Removing tariffs results in unemployment and the devaluation of currency. And without restructuring the government, in higher domestic taxes.

 

[KenH]

I suggest you read about the reasons the US has used tariffs beyond protective measures (beyond the Smoot-Hawley Act).

We now know, based on historical data, that tariffs are bad and inefficient, always bad and inefficient, and can never be anything but bad and inefficient.

 

[KenH]

but the only thing pro-socialists

Tariffs are a pro-big government policy.

 

[KenH]

Removing tariffs results in unemployment and the devaluation of currency.

You have a pro-big, interventionist government mentality, Jon. No wonder you are pro-tariff.

 

[JonC]

False.



False.



False.



False.

No, that is true.

If we remove the Biden-Harris 100% tariffs on Chineese cars then it will crush the US market. Like you said, Americans would buy these cars for far less than we can make them.

How will the auto industry stay in business without selling automobiles? They can't. And they can't compete because of US laws that prevent the exploration of workers, the US not having ownership in the automobile company, and US safety regulations.

You are living in a fantasy world if you believe removing tariffs on these foreign vehicles will not hurt the US economy.

Fair-trade is impossible because we do not have fair-production. If we lived in a vacuum, or your fantasy world, then you could have a point. But we don't.

 

[KenH]

"During the 2016 and 2020 campaigns, Trump’s opponents in the Democratic party (and elsewhere) often pointed out that Trump’s protectionism hobbles private markets and the economy overall. Yet, the allegedly anti-protectionist Biden administration has done virtually nothing to end Trump’s protectionists policies put in place from 2017 to 2020. The motivation is unclear, but it is possible that the Biden administration realized that protectionism is a useful political tool. These policies offer a way of punishing opponents, rewarding allies, and pandering to voters.
...
Raising taxes (i.e., tariffs) raises costs for all these American producers and consumers. Yes, it is true that Americans do not suffer the full consequences of taxes on foreign goods. As with a sales tax, a tariff imposes some costs on the seller by raising prices and thus reducing total sales. But it is simply wrong to portray tariffs are taxes primarily on foreigners, since, as Murray Rothbard notes, “Tariffs injure the consumers within the ‘protected’ area, who are prevented from purchasing from more efficient competitors at a lower price.
...
Taxes benefit the regime while impoverishing the rest of us. To favor “free trade” is to favor lowering taxes on Americans and depriving the regime of funds. To favor protectionism, whether it be for some foreign-policy crusade, or to “create jobs” is to simply be in favor of raising taxes and handing over more Americans’ wealth to the state."

- excerpt from Tariffs Are Taxes on Americans—But Protectionists Pretend Otherwise | Mises Institute

 

[KenH]

"With President Trump’s return to office after the Biden interregnum, we can be sure of one thing: tariffs are going to be a major part of his policy. He has touted tariffs as revenue generators, as ways to bring back manufacturing, and as negotiating tactics. The trouble is that all of these are in tension with each other, and none are particularly effective at what they purport to do. Indeed, their likely failure will result in harm to the people Trump claims to care for the most — working-class families.
...
To sum up, the three arguments for tariffs can only seriously be advanced by someone suffering from advanced cognitive dissonance. They are poor revenue raisers, they cause net harm to manufacturing, and they backfire as negotiating tools. These three objectives are mutually exclusive, and ineffective even when taken individually. A better policy would focus on reducing costs to the consumer."

- excerpt from Debunking the Three Best Arguments for Tariffs | The Daily Economy

 

[KenH]

No, that is true.

No, it is false.

 

[KenH]

If we remove the Biden-Harris 100% tariffs on Chineese cars then it will crush the US market.

I don't think so. You seem to have no confidence in the United States people and businesses. American companies could become more efficient, and make better quality cars. Why should working-class families be forced by the government to subsidize inefficient businesses?

 

[JonC]

Tariffs are a pro-big government policy.

They are. At one time we didn't have income taxes. The government was funded largely through tariffs.

 

[KenH]

You are living in a fantasy world

No, I am not. You are pro-big government and throwing up insipid arguments to try to defend your pro-big government position.

 

[KenH]

Fair-trade is impossible

No, it is not.

 

[KenH]

@JonC, you sound like you are so protective of the automotive industry that you are quite willing to crush the rest of the U.S. economy to protect it with your pro-big government policies.