There are Some Who Believe That a Sinner Does Nothing to be Saved

[Saved-By-Grace]

I think it's more correct to say the sinner can't do anything to be saved. Even his faith has to be reckoned by God, and God is not obligated to do this. He reckons the faith of the ungodly by his own sovereign choice (Romans 4:5).

So technically the sinner has to believe, but that belief, in and of itself, is not efficacious. It's all God's choice.

what complete rubbish. So humans are no more than a bunch of machines! you guys should quit your theology and start accepting what the Bible says!

 

[Calminian]

whatever!. You show the typical blindness of the Reformed bunch, who just stick with a bunch of misquoted Bible verses to cling on to their unbiblical nonsense! At least John Calvin was able to accept Universal Redemption, unlike some who use his name!

Universal redemption? That's what you're advocating for?

 

[Calminian]

what complete rubbish. So humans are no more than a bunch of machines! you guys should quit your theology and start accepting what the Bible says!

You're getting defensive, and using talking points. I never mentioned anything about God making choices for humans. There are those who believe that, but I've never advocated for that. Read what I wrote then read Romans 4. I should make sense. At least understand what you're arguing against.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Universal redemption? That's what you're advocating for?

Calvin on John 3:16

"That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

Note Calvin's non-calvinistic language!

Mark 14:24,

"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race"

Colossians 1:14

"He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"

What think ye?

 

[Robert William]

whatever!. You show the typical blindness of the Reformed bunch, who just stick with a bunch of misquoted Bible verses to cling on to their unbiblical nonsense! At least John Calvin was able to accept Universal Redemption, unlike some who use his name!

Instead of vain babbling, could you be more specific and expose me with scripture?

 

[Calminian]

Calvin on John 3:16

"That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

Note Calvin's non-calvinistic language!

Mark 14:24,

"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race"

Colossians 1:14

"He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"

What think ye?

So are you saying he invites all, or redeems all?

 

[Robert William]

Calvin on John 3:16

"That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

Note Calvin's non-calvinistic language!

Mark 14:24,

"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race"

Colossians 1:14

"He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"

What think ye?

You deny scripture.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Robert William]

what complete rubbish. So humans are no more than a bunch of machines! you guys should quit your theology and start accepting what the Bible says!

More vain babbling, could you please expose with scripture?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

So are you saying he invites all, or redeems all?

unless you are accusing God of being insincere, IF He were to INVITE the whole human race, it is ONLY because He has provided for ALL their sins in the Death of the Lord Jesus Christ. Redemption has been completed for the whole human race, but all will not be saved because all will not accept what the Lord demands. Remember, the Lord COMMANDS that the entire human race REPENTS of their sins (Acts 17:30)

 

[Robert William]

Calvin on John 3:16

"That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

Note Calvin's non-calvinistic language!

Mark 14:24,

"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race"

Colossians 1:14

"He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"

What think ye?

I suppose that you believe that Jesus atoned for the sins of all humans, sorry but scripture does not teach universal salvation.

 

[TCassidy]

Total Unability is nothing more than a "red herring", and has no basis whatsoever in the Bible.

What part of man, body, soul, or spirit, do you think the bible teaches remained sinlessly perfect after the fall and therefore good enough to attain heaven without Christ's sacrifice and forgiveness?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

What part of man, body, soul, or spirit, do you think the bible teaches remained sinlessly perfect after the fall and therefore good enough to attain heaven without Christ's sacrifice and forgiveness?

it is called FREE WILL which all humans have, and therefore have the ability to respond to the Gospel Message

 

[Robert William]

Calvin on John 3:16

"That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

Note Calvin's non-calvinistic language!

Mark 14:24,

"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race"

Colossians 1:14

"He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"

What think ye?

John 3:16 is referring to the world of believers, NOt all humans, that's ONLY those who are born again.REMEMBER, scripture says the natural man considers the gospel to be foolishness, so why would he/she choose it?

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Why did Nicodemus reject the preaching from the worlds best teacher/preacher, it's because he was not born again.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

John 3:16 is referring to the world of believers, NOY all humans, that's ONLY those who are born again.REMEMBER, scripture says the natural man considers the gospel to be foolishness, so why would he/she choose it?

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Why did Nicodemus reject the preaching from the worlds best teacher/preacher, it's because he was not born again.

Calvin writes, "invites all men without exception", where the "Calvinistic" term is "without distinction". the former for the whole "human race", the latter, "the elect"

 

[Robert William]

Calvin writes, "invites all men without exception", where the "Calvinistic" term is "without distinction". the former for the whole "human race", the latter, "the elect"

Calvin was a sinner saved by Grace, do not put your trust in man.

Why did Nicodemus reject what the worlds best preacher was teaching/preaching to him? It's because as Jesus said he was not born again.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

John Murray

"One aspect of the doctrines of grace is the insistence that man, by nature, is unable and unwilling to come to Jesus in repentance and faith. Apart from saving grace, a sinner is corrupt in every part of his being and morally incapable of doing good in God’s sight. Although he isn’t as wicked as he could be, he is dead in sin and his will is in bondage to sin."

Murray says "unable", the Bible says "unwilling" (John 5:39-40)

Murray says "bondage to sin", the Bible, "free to hear and believe" (John 5:24)

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Calvin was a sinner saved by Grace, do not put your trust in man.

Why did Nicodemus reject what the worlds best preacher was teaching/preaching to him? It's because as Jesus said he was not born again.

The Bible says that Jesus died for Judas!

 

[TCassidy]

it is called FREE WILL which all humans have, and therefore have the ability to respond to the Gospel Message

You didn't answer my question. Here it is again:

"What part of man, body, soul, or spirit, do you think the bible teaches remained sinlessly perfect after the fall and therefore good enough to attain heaven without Christ's sacrifice and forgiveness?"

 

[agedman]

it is called FREE WILL which all humans have, and therefore have the ability to respond to the Gospel Message

The lost have free will only in the confined choices consistent with what is fallen. They have no ability nor desire for the thinking and things of God.

That you actually impose such upon the Scriptures is just very poor.

Does not the Scriptures state that it is NOT by power, might or WILL that one is saved?

Your obsessiveness is based upon bias and agreement with some view that folks have a free will that apparently is not fallen. But that is just not found in the Scriptures.

You desire to mock the reformed, and you actually know nothing of the desperate insecurity of your own view.

Truly sad.

I am reminded of those who would allow emotionalism to supersede and even block the work of the Holy Spirit because they want to "feel" rather than be at true peace.

 

[TCassidy]

Calvin writes, "invites all men without exception",

Yes, the Gospel Call is universal, extended to all.