There are Some Who Believe That a Sinner Does Nothing to be Saved

[Saved-By-Grace]

Sure I could, but why should I.
You asked for verses from any and all Calvinists that indicate that God desires any sinner to go to Hell.
You then reject all verses provided because they do not have the exact wording that you are looking for Calvinists to provide and respond to what we have presented with little more than ‘we don’t understand scripture and should go read your verses instead’.

So my turn to play that game: Where is the verse that says “God cries a river of tears as he casts people into Hell”.

I presented verses that suggest no reluctance on God’s part to punish or damn. I know of no Calvinist that thinks God chuckles with maniacal glee at damning people. I am unsure what you are looking for from Calvinists except specific verbiage that does not exist in scripture that no one claims exists in scripture.

"I presented verses that suggest no reluctance on God’s part to punish or damn". Maybe you don't understand the English language? I said, show verses from the Bible where it shows that God WILLS that sinners go to hell? NOT that He will so PUNISH them because of their unrepentant sins! There is a BIG difference.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

So ‘I never knew you, DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS’ in Matthew 7:23 was spoken with tears of regret pouring from the cheeks of Jesus, the Righteous Judge?

So, from this verse you read that Jesus was PLEASED that these would go to hell? You need HELP

 

[Yeshua1]

How you guys like to read your theological bias into Scripture that does not say anything of what you hope it does. If you can read correctly, you will see that Jesus is here speaking of "professing believers", you have "a form of godliness", but in reality live lives that show that they were never truly saved. Read 2 Peter and Jude to get a better understanding.

So God does have a real wrath and will really punish sinners not saved? Not shy or second guessing Himself while doing that?

 

[Yeshua1]

So, from this verse you read that Jesus was PLEASED that these would go to hell? You need HELP

How do you understand Hebrews 10:29? God does not seem hesitant to condemn and judge those who reject Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

"I presented verses that suggest no reluctance on God’s part to punish or damn". Maybe you don't understand the English language? I said, show verses from the Bible where it shows that God WILLS that sinners go to hell? NOT that He will so PUNISH them because of their unrepentant sins! There is a BIG difference.

The will of God would be that those who he has not chosen ane elected unto salvation will receive what is due to them, and he is giving to them their just penalty, :their will getting done"

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

So God does have a real wrath and will really punish sinners not saved? Not shy or second guessing Himself while doing that?

Now you are trying to twist what I am saying! If you care to carefully read what I am saying, you will see that I have never even hinted what you suggest. The main point is, "God is very willing that they go into second death" (see #109)? Not does He "allow" sinner to chose at they "will", but, that God is VERY WILLING that sinner go to hell. This, is plainly HERETICAL teachings as it is 1000% against the very heart of the Lord and His Word. Show me from anywhere in the Bible, where this quote is true?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

How do you understand Hebrews 10:29? God does not seem hesitant to condemn and judge those who reject Christ!

Yes, but do you realize that those referred to here, are "SANCTIFIED" by the Holy Spirit, who are "BORN AGAIN", as they count the blood of Jesus as "uncommon"? The context is very clear that these referred to, are true believers. Look at the following verse, which cannot refer to the unsaved, "“Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” Where in Scripture are the "non-elect" ever referred to as "God's people"? OT passages that are used in the NT as warnings as to what could happen to believers who also reject the Lord.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

The will of God would be that those who he has not chosen ane elected unto salvation will receive what is due to them, and he is giving to them their just penalty, :their will getting done"

I quote the passage yet again, as you still cannot grasp what is said, ""God is VERY WILLING that they go into second death" (see #109). Yet the passages from Ezekiel 18 and 33, among others, are very clear that this is NOT the "will of God". Why are you Reformed/Calvinists so eager to see the lost perish in hell? You guys always attack and twist what the Bible VERY CLEARLY says: "Say to them, As I live, a statement of the Lord Jehovah, I do not have delight in the death of the wicked one, except in the evil one turning from his way, and so to live. Turn back! Turn back from your evil ways! For why will you die, O house of Israel?" (Ezekiel 33:11), where the Hebrew verb, "חָפֵץ", means "to will or desire". WHY do you guys fight what the Lord clearly says? I mean, what exactly is your problem here? You guys are so much like Jonah, who after God saved many thousands from eternal punishment, Jonah was angry with the Lord? WHY? This is NOT what the Bible teaches, but WARPED theology!!!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 7 PM Pacific.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, but do you realize that those referred to here, are "SANCTIFIED" by the Holy Spirit, who are "BORN AGAIN", as they count the blood of Jesus as "uncommon"? The context is very clear that these referred to, are true believers. Look at the following verse, which cannot refer to the unsaved, "“Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” Where in Scripture are the "non-elect" ever referred to as "God's people"? OT passages that are used in the NT as warnings as to what could happen to believers who also reject the Lord.

Peter states that judgement starts in the house of the Lord, but that is referring to God discipline His own due to them staying in sinful activities, while he warns how much worse the unsaved judgement from God shall be!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Peter states that judgement starts in the house of the Lord, but that is referring to God discipline His own due to them staying in sinful activities, while he warns how much worse the unsaved judgement from God shall be!

My friend, if you carefully, and without your Reformed/Calvinistic mindset, read the entire context of the Hebrews 10 passage, you will see that divine punishment is here meant, "it is a fearful thing". Very difficult passage indeed. But you have still not dealt with the quote I mentioned from #109? can you before this thread closes?

 

[Yeshua1]

My friend, if you carefully, and without your Reformed/Calvinistic mindset, read the entire context of the Hebrews 10 passage, you will see that divine punishment is here meant, "it is a fearful thing". Very difficult passage indeed. But you have still not dealt with the quote I mentioned from #109? can you before this thread closes?

The one by John Calvin?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

no, post # 109 "God is very willing that they go into second death"

 

[Yeshua1]

no, post # 109 "God is very willing that they go into second death"

If he were not welling, they would not go there, correct?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

If he were not welling, they would not go there, correct?

do you seen the emphasis VERY? do you see the way the words have been framed, so as to make God taking pleasure in doing this? As I have shown a few times, when the Lord says that He "takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked", that the Hebrew word for "pleasure" also means, "wills or desires". He "allows" this because it is a FREE WILL choice of the sinner who refuses to "repent and believe", as Jesus says in Mark 1:15. It seems to me through all these discussions that I have with the Reformed, that they oppose the fact that God loves the entire human race, and "desires" that ALL come to Jesus for salvation. I really have never been able to understand this in all my 35+ years being saved!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

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This thread will be closed sometime after 7 PM Pacific.