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Featured There is none who seeks for God

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes the Scripture can throw a monkey wrench in our personal theology.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, compare what some believe with 2 Thessalonians 2:13, a conditional election for salvation. Or James 2:5 where we are chosen as "poor to the world" meaning we are in the world when chosen, thus Ephesians 1:4 cannot refer to our individual election for salvation before creation. Now I can see some who would rewrite scripture to allow them to continue to believe their mistaken view, such as "Did not God choose those foreseen to be poor to the world, foreseen to be rich in faith, and foreseen to be heirs to the kingdom that will be promised to those foreseen to love God after they are created in the future." Not how it reads.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Some seek God some of the time. That is true. God reveals Himself to people, both through what He has made and through the work and witness of the Holy Spirit. In our fallen state, we can hear and understand the milk of the gospel. There are none that seek God while going against God by sinning. But fallen people do seek God like the men of Matthew 23:13
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes a good example (though Cain was evil) Cain sought God.
     
  5. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Where did Cain seek God? Wasn’t it God who first came to him in Genesis 4?
     
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Genesis 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
     
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  7. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I saw that after I posted my question for you. I see him just like those self-righteous Pharisees, Saducees, religious leaders, et al. They sought God on their terms, not God’s. Later on, God exposes Cain’s wicked heart to him.
     
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  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Agreed, nonetheless Cain sought God and how can we mortals know the source - i.e. self or God.
    So - bottom line I don't believe we can make an unqualified statement about what that means as Cain is an example.

    So when the Scripture says that none seek after God that qualification is made in other places.

    By their fruits you shall know them. Yes you are correct and I agree SG - Cain proved LATER what manner of seeking he was doing.
     
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    One way scripture is made to no effect is to say all those who were seeking God were not really seeking God. But that fallacy is shown to be a fallacy by Matthew 23:13 where those seeking God were in the process of entering. Thus they were really seeking God. The fact is the Bible provides many examples of people seeking God the wrong way (through works) and other examples of people seeking God through faith. So what do the nullifiers do, they rewrite the text, so instead of "your faith has saved you" we get your [God given] faith has saved you.

    Belief in an altered text is not a wise choice.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Romans 3:11 makes this statement and some read this as saying "there is none who seeks for God at any time." However the intended contextual message might be "there is none who seeks for God all the time, or when they are going against God by sinning."

    Contextually, since Paul is saying "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) our third choice is most likely the inspired message.

    Therefore some seek God some of the time, like the men of Matthew 23:13
     
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Romans 1:19 makes that clear
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, revelatory grace, through what God has made and through the witness of the Holy Spirit allows some people to seek God some of the time. Coupled with 1 Corinthians 3:1, which teaches the lost can understand the milk of the gospel, provides our access to the saving grace in which we stand, Romans 5:2
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    v.18 says that man is held accountable and will suffer the wrath of God because of that revelation.
     
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  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Spot on!!

    Romans 1:18-19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    Unbelief and Its Consequences
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [a]in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident [b]within them; for God made it evident to them.

    Footnotes:
    1. Romans 1:18 Or by
    2. Romans 1:19 Or among
     
  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    And where does it say that Cain sought God of his own terms?

    Cain was a tiller and worked the soil. He brought the fruits of his labor to the Lord. What else was he supposed to do?
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Page 6 and still folks are asserting that bringing offerings to the Lord in no way suggests they were seeking the Lord. Kindness and truth, kindness and truth. Lets not judge a person by the color of their grease paint, but by the content of their character.
     
  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    .One person I spoke to about Cain said that Cain brought the wrong thing to sacrifice. He was suppose to bring a lamb per the instructions from God for a sacrifice not fruit's and vegetables. He should have bartered with Adam and purchased a lamb. God's instructions are suppose to be followed to the letter.
    MB
     
  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I believe this is why we are suppose to follow the doctrine of Christ and not that of man.
    MB
     
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Total conjecture.
     
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  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Anyone can invent stuff not in scripture to create a bogus justification for a bogus interpretation of scripture.
     
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