Thief on the cross

Quoted by J. Jump: So does that mean we all have to ask Christ if we can go into His kingdom if we want to be there? End quote

Yes. You guys are playing a pretty serious game of adding to God's Word. 2 Salvations? Being banished for 1,000 years? Too much time on your hands?

Everyone is a theologeon. I have never seen so much disagreement and false doctrine spread on any website the way it is spread on this one.

We need to get back to basics and preach and teach the gospel. Keep works out of it. For by grace are ye saved. Keep it simple.

 

Well---the Bible doesn't say, does it?? The Bible doesn't tell us what happened to those bodies---so any assumption would be an assumption. I am assumiing that if they rose with resurrected eternal bodies---that (1) they kinda sorta just "hung around" until Jesus(our Firstfruit) assended on Day 40 and they kinda sorta ascended behind Him unseen----or (2) another assumption is that they just "vanished" in thin air---just went from "Here to There" in the speed of thought

Of course--this is just assumption---nobody can "smack me" for being wrong----your assumption--whatever it may be may be just as wrong or it may be right---the Bible doesn't say!!!

 

Well...the Bible kinda does say. It says they went into that Holy City and were seen by many.

 

You are absolutely right. Unfortunately church tradition has destroyed the basics. The basics are that man is a tri-part being and that each part needs to be saved, and to the thanksgiving of God Almighty He has provided a means for our complete salvation!!

If you want to get back to the basics of Scripture then you will want to understand the gospel and what that means Biblically speaking not traditionally speaking.

Biblicallys speaking when one is saved eternally it is their spirit that is saved. Then the spirit and the soul are separated, because what fellowship does light have with darkness...none. And from that point forward it is our soul that should be being saved. And it will one day be saved at the end of our faith if we endure.

Those are the nuts and bolts basics.

The Bible teaches that there is a gospel (good news) to the spiritually dead, and it teaches that there is a gospel (good news) to the spiritually alive!

 

So, the dead can hear?

 

Obviously how else would someone be saved. That's an odd question coming from a person that fights so adamantly against Calvinism. That's a Calvinistic question if I ever heard one.

Do you not believe people are spiritually dead Brother Bob?

 

Yes, and I believe they can hear but thought the Calvinistic believed that they first must have their heart converted before they could do anything?

 

I believe that that is something the Calvinists believe. But, I thought the comment was directed at J. Jump. Must have been rhetorical.

 

I agree Bob, I thought the calvinist view is that the dry bones would have just laid there because they were not the elect since they were dead??? Or did just some of the bones come to life?

 

And this is the way I expected you to answer the question and we are in agreement which is why I don't understand your original question. Do you think I'm Calvinistic Bob?

 

We have differed so much I guess I did think you were Calvinistic but after thinking about it a while I guess its J.J. that is Calvinistic. sorry,

 

That's all it takes.

 

If you are talking about spiritual salvation you are correct, but that's not the context of the passage. The thief asked Jesus to remember him when He came in His kingdom. The kingdom message is not the same as spiritual salvation.

 

How can a person can be in Christ's kingdom without being saved by Christ? If someone has not been thus saved, then he is still in the devil's kingdom. Besides, Jesus promised to do far more than the thief had asked. He didn't just remember him - He said, "Today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

 

The Thief is SAVED and in the Kingdom based on the KINGS word not our ideas about it . It seems plenty plain to me :BangHead: i can't not understand the confusion about this plain simple text.

 

Well David you have asked some difficult questions in light of what has been taught in the church over the last at least 20-some years. I can't speak past that really.

So let's start answering your question by asking a question Do you believe the OT believers were saved by their faith in Christ? If you could answer that one for me then we will be able to proceed as then I will know where you are coming from.

 

I'll bite, yes. That's what the record says...

 

Not asking you to bite on anything I just need to know where we are starting so we can move forward.

And since you have answered the question we are going to have a hard time moving much further, because I don't see any Scriptural evidence that folks were supposed to believe in the death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God as their substitute.

The disciples didn't even believe in His death until after it happened.

Can you show me Scripture where an OT person was saved because they had faith in Christ? And can you show me how that was how all people in the OT were supposed to be saved by their faith in Christ?

 

Isa 53:7¶He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Act 8:32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:


Act 8:33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

Zec 14:8¶And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.