Thief on the cross

[Allan]

Ok, Ed...

Since the soul is a seperate and distinct entity from the spirit (as you calim), both can joy and suffer so they are sperately alive- according to you. Therefore one can be in Hell in torment and one can be in heaven - and or both must be saved because both are individual and alive!

So in releation to God, Jesus, and since the Godhead shares both essense and being the Holy Spirit to has soul, spirit and body.

Now if each memeber of the Godhead is distinct and seperate then you literally have 9 Gods in the Godhead in stead of 3. For each member of the Godhead being distinct in and of themselves are also a tri-une being independent of each other with a soul, spirit, and body.

Now that leaves a very large problem as I see it: (if we assume this is true)

The body without the SOUL AND SPIRIT is dead (lifeless). So if this principle is followed through, IF you can sperate the soul and spirit one of these must die (become lifeless) as well - since we see scripture typically associate the soul with the emotion or heart and the spirit with the intellect or personality. One without the other is dead (without life or lifeless)

God does not have a body for He is a Spirit, just as the Holy Spirit is a Spirit! We were not created in the likeness of the independent tri-une being God the Father and the independent tri-une being of God the Son, and same with the Holy Spirit. THEY are THE TRI-UNE being that are three yet ONE. Would the Godhead continue if One was seperated from it.

The argument might be made about Jesus (I don't think so personally) but we will assume Just for the sake of argurment that he represents the body, and the Father (soul) and the Holy Spirit (guess - Spirit). Can you seperate the Holy Spirit from the Father and they still be God. the answer is NO! To seperate them AT ALL removes the very nature and essence of their being - so to it is with man since we are made in His likeness (image)

I didn't get much sleep today so if it doesn't make sense I can try to clarify it better latter.

 

[Allan]

BTW Ed...

The Spirit that God places upon Him (Jesus) is not His personal indivual Spirit aside from Godhead but the HOLY SPIRIT that was upon Him througout the Gospels!

 

[EdSutton]

I have a question for everyone who supports the "Two Salvations" theory. Why is it more difficult to enter the Millenial Kingdom than it is to enter Heaven. Won't Heaven be infinitely better and last infinitely longer. Scriptural support?

Not getting into this one, per se, but I do remember Bible College Rule #3.

Bible College Rule #3

"Never let the Bible interfere with your theology!" :tongue3:

And of course, Bible College Rule #3 is closely akin, of course, to Preacher's Rule #4.

Preacher's Rule #4

"When trying to make a weak point, repeat it again and again, yell loudly, and repeatedly pound the pulpit!" :BangHead:

And, to expand on this, of course, the less Scriptural support you find, the louder you should yell, and maybe should even stomp and snort! Strong points will stand on their own. :laugh:
Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Ok, Ed...

I'm gonna' try and stick some comments in, as we go along, here, but I'm not that good at this, so I'll try and see how it works out. I'm going to attempt to put mine in bold, for differentiation. (Language Cop didn't sleep very well, so he'll probably 'have an attitude' and show it, as he does his thing, as well, correcting punctuation, and identifying spelling errors. I'll attempt to cover the rest.) Anyway, as to my attempt, so far - so good... :laugh:

Since the soul is a seperate (sic) and distinct entity from the spirit (as you calim (sic) ), both can joy and suffer (sic??) so they are sperately (sic) alive- according to you. Therefore one can be in Hell in torment and one can be in heaven - and or both must be saved because both are individual and alive!

I didn't say [or calim (sic) ] any of this, that I see, especially as to any "distinct entity", and that not only in this thread, but ever, anywhere in any of my 58 years, FTR.

So in releation (sic) to God, Jesus, and since the Godhead shares both essense and being, the Holy Spirit to (sic) has soul, spirit and body.

Now if each memeber (sic) of the Godhead is distinct and seperate (sic) then you literally have 9 Gods in the Godhead in stead (sic) of 3. For each member of the Godhead being distinct in and of themselves are also a tri-une being independent of each other with a soul, spirit, and body.

I made absolutely no claim, "literally" or otherwise, about '3 Gods', let alone '9 Gods'. (Who do I look like, - Benny??) But I do agree that the 'Persons' of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are distinct. I am in substantial, if not complete agreement, (and that primarily due to some phraseology) with the historic 'orthodox' "church creeds" of the Apostle's, Nicene, Chalcedon, and Athanasian, as well as some of the more modern statements such as the Chicago Statements, and the Baptist Faith and Message, (in all three of its incarnations, basically), as well. (I do object to some things in the BFM, including the 'definition' of repentance, the implied idea of committment as a component part of 'faith', and the carried idea of 'perseverance' in some wording.) But I'll cite this partial excerpted quote from the Athanasian Creed, as to my own 'orthodoxy'.

[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial]... we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial]For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial]...[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial]So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are not three gods, but one God.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Now that leaves a very large problem as I see it: (if we assume this is true)

The body without the SOUL AND SPIRIT is dead (lifeless). So if this principle is followed through, IF you can sperate (sic) the soul and spirit one of these must die (become lifeless) as well - since we see scripture (sic) typically associate the soul with the emotion or heart and the spirit with the intellect or personality. One without the other is dead (without life or lifeless)

God does not have a body for He is a Spirit, just as the Holy Spirit is a Spirit! We were not created in the likeness of the independent tri-une being God the Father and the independent tri-une being of God the Son, and same with the Holy Spirit. THEY are THE TRI-UNE being that are three yet ONE. Would the Godhead continue if One was seperated (sic) from it.

The argument might be made about Jesus (I don't think so, personally) but we will assume, Just for the sake of argurment, that he (sic) represents the body, and the Father (soul) and the Holy Spirit (guess - Spirit). Can you seperate (sic) the Holy Spirit from the Father and they still be God. the answer is NO! To seperate (sic) them AT ALL removes the very nature and essence of their being - so to it is with man since we are made in His likeness (image)

Since I said only a little of the above, I'm not really sure what your point is. For I don't disagree with a lot of it, at all. However, as I previously said, my responses were, for the most part, direct statements from Scripture about a question which you asked. So I guess if you don't agree with that, your argument is with Scripture, its writers, and the Tri-une God. Take it up with them.

I'm somewhat reminded of a giving of a 'message' (I'm not a preacher, so I would not classify it as a 'sermon'), once in the absence of a pastor when folks were saying they thought it was good and they enjoyed it, but I was alongside a deacon when we happened to overhear one woman say to another, "That was about the worst thing I ever heard in my life!" I looked at the deacon, who said to me, "Don't pay any attention to anything she says! She's the biggest gossip in this church, and just repeats what she hears everybody else say!" :laugh:

I'm just repeating what I heard everybody else (in Scripture) say, as well.

I didn't get much sleep today so if it doesn't make sense I can try to clarify it better latter.

Thanks. One final word. Language Cop didn't get much sleep, either, and is about to blow his cork over a couple of things, wanting me to tell you that the word you kept on attempting to spell is "separate - 's-e-p-a-r-a-t-e' ", and that God, Scripture, and pronouns referring to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are all to be capitalized.

One more thing. I make absolutely no claim to be able to divide the soul and spirit, at all, even though Scripture makes a 'division', or distinction. (II Thes. 5:23, Heb. 4:12) It's the Word of God that makes that claim. (Heb. 4:12)

The Word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

All Scripture is God-breathed-out, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God might be mature, thoroughly furnished for every good work. (Heb 4:12; II Tim. 3:16-17 - my rendering)

Ed

 

[webdog]

Not getting into this one, per se, but I do remember Bible College Rule #3.

Bible College Rule #3

"Never let the Bible interfere with your theology!" :tongue3:

And of course, Bible College Rule #3 is closely akin, of course, to Preacher's Rule #4.

Preacher's Rule #4

"When trying to make a weak point, repeat it again and again, yell loudly, and repeatedly pound the pulpit!" :BangHead:

And, to expand on this, of course, the less Scriptural support you find, the louder you should yell, and maybe should even stomp and snort! Strong points will stand on their own. :laugh:
Ed

Summary: There is no Scriptural support.

 

[webdog]

- since we see scripture typically associate the soul with the emotion or heart and the spirit with the intellect or personality. One without the other is dead (without life or lifeless)

Allan, I don't mean to derail this discussion, but where in Scripture is the spirit associated with intellect and the soul with emotion or the heart?

 

[EdSutton]

Summary: There is no Scriptural support.

That is probably a valid conclusion to this, but mostly, it's a coupla' funny lines, I use, at times. And I was not getting into a long discussion of "two salvations", per se. Why pick only two??:tongue3:

Ed

 

[Allan]

Sorry about that EDSutton, I was speaking with some others and confligated your "actual" statements with what I was dealing with concerning their "actual" statements. :BangHead: Like I said I was very tired.

It was (by others before) claimed the soul is a separate entity and would be judge and the spirit is a separate entity and would be judge just as the body is a saperate entity and IS judged (via death) and therefore all must be saved individually.

What I think caused my confussion (and apparently demintia) was you replying to my comment to HOPE OF GLORY. He made a similar comment of those I was previously speaking with of Jesus.

Here is the quote from Hope of Glory:

When Jesus died, his body went in the grave, his spirit went to be with the father, and his soul went to hell.

And Yes I agree and believe in the Trinity - Three distinict persons, yet one in essence and being.


Sorry for ineptness of that posting and the insinuating you held beliefs that never passed your lips or keyboard.

Forgive?

 

[EdSutton]

Sorry about that EDSutton, I was speaking with some others and confligated your "actual" statements with what I was dealing with concerning their "actual" statements. :BangHead: Like I said I was very tired.

It was (by others before) claimed the soul is a separate entity and would be judge and the spirit is a separate entity and would be judge just as the body is a saperate entity and IS judged (via death) and therefore all must be saved individually.

What I think caused my confussion (and apparently demintia) was you replying to my comment to HOPE OF GLORY. He made a similar comment of those I was previously speaking with of Jesus.

Here is the quote from Hope of Glory:


And Yes I agree and believe in the Trinity - Three distinict persons, yet one in essence and being.


Sorry for ineptness of that posting and the insinuating you held beliefs that never passed your lips or keyboard.

Forgive?

Surely.

L.C. says that I shouldn't keep calling people 'Shirley!' :laugh: :laugh:

Ed