Those Objecting to God Imputing Righteousness

[KenH]

And our works that cannot save us but they reap heavenly rewards in the resurrection.

Even those are based on God's plan and purpose:

Matthew 20:23 So He said to them, “You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father.”

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[Van]

God would be unjust if Christ did not first pay for your sins, and if God did not impute Christ's righteousness to you before saving you. There's no basis for your salvation without these acts of grace.

God is never unjust. To claim the scriptural view must be wrong because it makes God unjust is utter nonsense.
Verse after verse says where we are made righteous. That would be "in Christ, in Jesus, in Him," etc.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Co 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

When a person is regenerated (made alive together with Christ) they have therefore undergone the washing of regeneration. It is a lock...

 

[1689Dave]

God is never unjust. To claim the scriptural view must be wrong because it makes God unjust is utter nonsense.
Verse after verse says where we are made righteous. That would be "in Christ, in Jesus, in Him," etc.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Co 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

When a person is regenerated (made alive together with Christ) they have therefore undergone the washing of regeneration. It is a lock...

If God can sin against his nature, you would be right. But he cannot be just and save sinners without first justifying sinners. Do you think Christ's suffering on the cross was not necessary? God is not a god of sleaze as you would have him be.

 

[Van]

If God can sin against his nature, you would be right. But he cannot be just and save sinners without first justifying sinners. Do you think Christ's suffering on the cross was not necessary? God is not a god of sleaze as you would have him be.

One absurd argument after another is all that is being posted by the Calvinists. And claiming we can be made righteous through imputation is their bag, not mine. Their god of sleaze is of their own creation. My God is the God of the Bible.

When are we made righteous? When God places us into Christ.
When are we regenerated. When we are made alive together with Christ, thus when placed in Christ.
When do we undergo the washing of regeneration? When we are made alive together with Christ while in Christ.
What is the result of regeneration? We are a new creation, after the washing of regeneration.

2Co 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

 

[Van]

God would be unjust if Christ did not first pay for your sins, and if God did not impute Christ's righteousness to you before saving you. There's no basis for your salvation without these acts of grace.

Once again we see Calvinist fiction.

If a person has their sin burden (what God holds against them) removed, why is that just? Because God accepted the sacrifice of Christ for that sin, past, present and future. If a person is not placed into Christ, do they undergo the circumcision of Christ? Nope.

Col 2:11
and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ,

So the removal of the sin burden occurs after God places a person into Christ and not before. Thus their is no "double payment" in the afterlife of the lost for their sin.

Here are the two views, the first bogus, the second valid:
1) God chose the elect individually before creation, Christ died only for the elect, thus paying then for their sin burden.

2) God chooses the elect individually during their lifetime based on crediting their faith as righteousness, then places them into Christ where their sin burden is removed, in accordance with Christ dying for all humanity. Christ became the means of salvation for all humanity (1 John 2:2) but only when a person is placed into Christ, does that person receive the benefit of His sacrifice.

 

[KenH]

@Van Do you believe that a person will be punished for sins that Christ suffered for?

 

[Van]

@Van Do you believe that a person will be punished for sins that Christ suffered for?

Folks, Calvinists ask the same questions over and over as if they do not remember the answer from the last time.

We know that you believe in imputation, a fiction. We know you do not believe in the washing of regeneration in Christ as the means of being made righteous, which is a biblical fact.

We know that you do not believe Christ became the means of salvation for the whole world, all of humanity. We know you do not believe Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, those to be saved and those never to be saved. Why? To provide the opportunity for all!!

Here are the two views, the first bogus, the second valid:
1) God chose the elect individually before creation, Christ died only for the elect, thus paying then for their sin burden.

2) God chooses the elect individually during their lifetime based on crediting their faith as righteousness, then places them into Christ where their sin burden is removed, in accordance with Christ dying for all humanity. Christ became the means of salvation for all humanity (1 John 2:2) but only when a person is placed into Christ, does that person receive the benefit of His sacrifice.

 

[KenH]

@Van Do you believe that God demands payment for the same sins twice - once by Christ and then again by a person who dies lost? A simple yes or no will suffice, if you don't mind. I think you are saying that you do, but I don't want to ruffle your feathers by misunderstanding you.

 

[Van]

@Van Do you believe that God demands payment for the same sins twice - once by Christ and then again by a person who dies lost? A simple yes or no will suffice, if you don't mind. I think you are saying that you do, but I don't want to ruffle your feathers by misunderstanding you.

Asked and answered over and over and over again. Why are you copy and posting the same idiotic questions over and over?
Did Christ dying for those never to be save "pay for their sins?" That is your idiotic claim. He provided the opportunity to have the sin burden (what God held against them) removed from all humanity. Is that too difficult for you with your Calvinist blinders on, to grasp. Good grief!!

 

[KenH]

He provided the opportunity to have the sin burden (what God held against them) removed from all humanity.

That is a false teaching. The Bible teaches that Christ died as a propitiation to save His people from their sins, not merely try to make them savable, leaving the rest up to them (Matthew 1:21, 1 John 2:2).

Christ Jesus is an actual Savior, not merely a potential one. @Van, your claim would mean that Christ Jesus could potentially end up saving no one.

 

[Van]

That is a false teaching. The Bible teaches that Christ died as a propitiation to save His people from their sins, not merely try to make them savable, leaving the rest up to them (Matthew 1:21, 1 John 2:2).

Christ Jesus is an actual Savior, not merely a potential one. @Van, your claim would mean that Christ Jesus could potentially end up saving no one.

1 John 2:2 says what you claim is false! A ransom for all is not a ransom for some. Your claim is a false teaching. Scripture says those never to be saved were bought. Your claim they were not is a false teaching. Yes Christ died for "His people," but "His people" are included in Him dying as a ransom for all people.

And yet in another absurdity, the claim is made Christ "could" end up saving nobody because God must credit the faith of believers. Recall the thief on the cross, he obtained approval through faith because Christ said "today, you will be with Me in paradise."

 

[KenH]

1 John 2:2 says what you claim is false! A ransom for all is not a ransom for some. Your claim is a false teaching. Scripture says those never to be saved were bought. Your claim they were not is a false teaching. Yes Christ died for "His people," but "His people" are included in Him dying as a ransom for all people.

@Van Surely you are trying the "world" angle, are you? World means Jews and Gentiles, not every person. Your position is easily refuted by reading Luke 2:1 - And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. Obviously, "world" was every person in the world.

 

[KenH]

@Van Christ did not pray for the "world". He said so Himself - John 17:9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours."

 

[Van]

@Van Christ did not pray for the "world". He said so Himself - John 17:9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours."

Once again a claim that has been shown to be false is hoisted yet again. Folks, just read John 17:18-21, Jesus is praying for the world, humanity that they may believe.

 

[KenH]

@Van In this passage, the "world" doesn't include Christ's people: 1 John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

It is clear, that the "world" must be understood in the context in which it appears, as well as the teaching of the Bible as a whole.

 

[KenH]

Once again a claim that has been shown to be false is hoisted yet again. Folks, just read John 17:18-21, Jesus is praying for the world, humanity that they may believe.

Jesus says that He did not pray for the world(those who are not His elect). I believe Christ, not you.

 

[Van]

@Van Surely you are trying the "world" angle, are you? World means Jews and Gentiles, not every person. Your position is easily refuted by reading Luke 2:1 - And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. Obviously, "world" was every person in the world.

Calvinists deny the John used the word translated "world" to refer to humanity. But scholars agree, John uses the world to indeed refer to humanity.

 

[KenH]

Calvinists deny the John used the word translated "world" to refer to humanity. But scholars agree, John uses the world to indeed refer to humanity.

The last time I checked, all of God's elect, Jews and Gentiles, are humans, other than the elect angels(1 Timothy 5:21).

 

[Van]

@Van In this passage, the "world" doesn't include Christ's people: 1 John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

It is clear, that the "world" must be understood in the context in which it appears, as well as the teaching of the Bible as a whole.

Certainly, but the Calvinist interpretation ignores the context and simple claims the word means whatever supports Calvinism. LOL

 

[Van]

The last time I checked, all of God's elect, Jews and Gentiles, are humans, other than the elect angels.

Utter nonsense. God chooses human individuals for salvation. John uses the word translated "world" to refer to humanity.