All I am doing is quoting NT verses that MANY people absolutely refuse to deal with!
We must RECONCILE all of the NT verses ... NOT just choose certain ones to believe.
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Those practicing righteousness are the righteous!
- Thread starter Samuels
- Start date
We must RECONCILE all of the NT verses ... NOT just choose certain ones to believe.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I was cleansed at the cross, Samuels ( Romans 5:8-11, Colossians 2:13-14 ).
As for 1 John 1:9, it is an evidential passage, not a conditional one.
I do and all believers in Christ have, exactly as the Scriptures describe.
He has forgiven me ALL trespasses...
For that is what Colossians 2:13-14 clearly describes, does it not?
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Romans 6 notwithstanding, I am not free to sin...I am freed from sin.
Believers are made willing servants to righteousness by the power of God through the new birth.
Question:
Do you still sin, Samuels?
" If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." ( 1 John 1:8-10 ).
If you say that you are sinless ( outside of Christ's blood washing them away in the sight of God ), then you are deceiving yourself.
If you tell me that you've achieved sinless perfection apart from the power of God's Spirit, then you are deceiving yourself.
I don't even have to know you personally to tell you that yes, you do still sin...
Because no man or woman outside of the Son of God has ever gone 30 minutes in this life without his or her wicked flesh conjuring up some sort of disobedience against God ( Romans 7:14-25, Galatians 5:17 ).
Whether it's a man lusting after a woman, not being able to love God with all one's heart, soul and mind, or criticizing God-ordained government or speaking evil of men.
No one can say that they are without sin, and no one can honestly say that they do not sin...
Not even God's elect.
Furthermore...
Focusing on one "verse" ( to the detriment of the rest ) does not do His word justice, my friend.
1 John 1:9 must be taken right along with the others.
There are no warnings in God's word that, if ignored, will result in someone losing their salvation.
Again, see 1 Peter 1:5.
If you think that God's power cannot keep someone in the faith,
then you and I are not believing in the same God, I'm sorry to say.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
I would have to say that this teaching of "loss of salvation unless one keeps themselves in the grace of God by holy living" completely overlooks the work of Christ on the cross for the believer ( and God imputing His righteousness, and not our own, to us ),
and also unintentionally seeks to place the believer back on the treadmill of obeying God to remain in His favor.
But to say that it seeks to bring them back under slavery to sin?
I'll have to disagree, Austin.
I think it's coming from another direction, much as the Galatians had started listening to...
People who had come into their churches, teaching obedience to the works of the Law in addition to God's grace through Jesus Christ;
and that their very salvation rested upon their obedience to God, instead of Christ's obedience to God on their behalf.
I see the Scriptures teaching that we as believers obey God because we are born again and no longer dead to the Lord and His ways,
and we overcome the world, the flesh and the devil by the power of the Holy Spirit in us ( Romans 8:12-13 ) and by the faith that God has given to us ( 1 Corinthians 15:57, Ephesians 2:8, 1 John 5:4 ).
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Sounds like to me you are.
2 points of great interest for some of you watching this thread:
(1) Both Ephesians (see 1:1) and Colossians (see 1:2) were written
to the saints who are FAITHFUL (or faithful followers of Jesus).
(2) Your Colossians passage is just another description
of what happens to one who has just been born-again!
It describes the INITIAL state of the BAC.
But, this state of grace is NOT guaranteed to last forever.
However, it does describe a BAC who fits (1) above.
But, it does NOT describe the BACs in Galatians 5:4
(who have been estranged from Christ, and fallen from grace),
and many other NT passages.
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Dave, if you are a BAC, you no longer have to sin.
This is what "freed from sin" means.
If you practice righteousness (1 John 3:10)
or
if you work righteousness (Acts 10:35) ...
you are proving that you are a BAC who is
in a righteous standing with Father God.
I.E. You are proving that you are a faithful saint ...
a faithful follower of Jesus (see Eph 1:1 and Col 1:2).
This obviously doesn't save you, but it proves you!
or
if you work righteousness (Acts 10:35) ...
you are proving that you are a BAC who is
in a righteous standing with Father God.
I.E. You are proving that you are a faithful saint ...
a faithful follower of Jesus (see Eph 1:1 and Col 1:2).
This obviously doesn't save you, but it proves you!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I agree.
All the children of God are faithful:
" These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful." ( Revelation 17:14 ).
They are also called and chosen...
Do you know what those two terms mean?
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
It says "...having forgiven you all trespasses...", not some of them.
Their forgiveness of sins was total in nature, and describes not only the "initial state" ( whatever that is ), but the continuous, eternal state of every believer whose sins are removed from God's sight by the blood of His Son... as far as east is from west.
He will remember their sins and iniquities no more...
Not one single one of them.
Samuels, would you have me to believe that all of my sins are not forgiven, and that my salvation rests upon the continuous and burdensome treadmill of "keeping myself saved" by my own efforts at pleasing Him?
It seems that I have news for you...
My efforts at gaining His favor weren't good enough to please Him when I was dead in trespasses and sins,
and they surely are not good enough to please Him after He made me a new creature and I've believed on His Son.
The only thing that the Lord finds pleasing is my faith in His Son's efforts on my behalf.
One either has God's unmerited favor, or one does not.
One is either elect, or one is not.
God's grace cannot be earned, my friend.
Not by any means.
Also, the Scriptures below tell me many things:
John 6:39 tells me that not one of the ones that were given to Christ by His Father shall be lost.
John 5:24 tells me that those who believe already have ( not will have ) everlasting life and will not come into condemnation.
John 10:28-29 tell me that no one can pluck me out of God's hand...not even myself.
Romans 8:29-30 tells me that that I was foreknown, predestinated, called, justified and ( will be ) glorified someday.
John 6:44 tells me that no man can come to Christ unless the Father draws them...
And Christ WILL raise up whoever is drawn ( and given to Him ) by His Father ( John 6:39, John 6:65, John 17:2 ) on the last day.
Samuels, it seems that you really do not understand the difference between a "wheat" and a "tare"...
A true believer who has been called by the power of God's Spirit and His word, and a false "believer" who has not.
A person whom God has chosen and caused to approach Him ( Psalms 65:4 ) and a person whom the Lord has not chosen, nor caused to approach Him...
But has rather tried to approach Him through a system of good works.
The Lord Jesus explains these two parables at great length in Matthew 13, Mark 4 and Luke 8.
I encourage you to read them, and then carefully re-read the Lord's explanation of them to His disciples who asked Him about them in private.
Not everyone that thinks that they are saved, really is.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Samuels, as a child of the living God, I no longer want to sin.
By His grace and the power of His Spirit, I will mortify ( put to death ) the deeds of the body ( Romans 8:12-13 ).
But as long as I am in this flesh, I will stumble ( Romans 7:14-25, Galatians 5:17 )...
When He finally gives me a new body to go with my new spirit, then the war will be over and I will be free from sin forever.
For right now, I am both freed from the penalty of sin, and I am free from its power...
But I am not free from its presence, nor its influence;
Only it's dominion ( Romans 6:14 ).
It no longer controls me, my friend.
God has made me a new creature ( 2 Corinthians 5:17 ),
and I am now a servant of righteousness ( Romans 6:18-22 ) and am indebted to it.
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This is so true, especially those who trust in OSAS eternal security.
Seems I'm going to have to list some NT passages, which are
dire warnings that BACs can lose their salvation
(which I have done dozens of times over the years).
Are you aware that Americans have been dumbed-down
for decades through their education system?
It's no wonder that they cannot understand plain English
(in their Bibles), nor can they think for themselves.
All of this is so America can be more easily taken over,
which is underway at the present moment.
P.S. "initial" means at the first, e.g. when a BAC is foist saved.
They are reconciled by the context around them and by the other passages in scripture.
You are ripping verses out of context and then saying there is a problem. There is no problem. You are attempting to create a problem that is not there.
Years ago, I might have agreed with your doctrine ...
but I read and understood the NT when I saw the
many dire warnings written to everyone in the churches!
Not to mention those of Jesus spoken to everyone (including you).
There are several SIN LISTS in the epistles to the churches.
Please see 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Gal. 5:19-21, Eph. 5:3-6.
Another favorite of mine is Rev. 21:8.
They state that anyone who is guilty of habitually doing any one
of these sins (w/o repentance) cannot enter the kingdom of God.
IMO, this means they are NOT saved and NOT going to heaven.
Perhaps, you have a different interpretation of these passages?
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OK, let's do an easy one for you ...
it is NOT even specifically written to the churches!
Yes, it's written to everyone ...
who has a NT, and can read, and can understand, etc.
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral,
sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake
which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
To make things even more NOT understandable for thou,
please note that da unbelievers are put in a class by demselves.
It seems logical to me that all of the other sinners refer to believers!
But, let's NOT go by logic ... let's go by what the Holy Spirit shows us.
WOW!
Are you still OK, or have you fallen off your chair?
Please take a few months to ponder over this, and then get back to us.
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Why don't you take one of the warnings and explain it away via its' context?
(Sure, there are several so-called OSAS eternal security verses in the NT.)
If you don't know any of the NT dire warnings, then you will be admitting
that you don't understand plain English, and/or that you are greatly deceived.
Notwithstanding that they should be pointed out to you by Holy Spirit.
(But, one has to be OPEN to hearing spiritual Truth for Him to convince.)
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Please, don't be like many females on Christian forums who want to make it personal.
We're NOT talking about YOUR glorious walk with the Lord, etc.
We're talking about what the NT says, and warns about, etc.
And we should be talking about how to RECONCILE
the so-called OSAS eternal security NT verses
with
those NT verses which stand against said verses!
But, no one desires to RECONCILE all of the NT verses!
Dey prefer to believe in their long-standing false doctrines.
Because they're comfortable ...
and dey prefer what their comfortable churches preach.
If this be true then there is no eternal life for anyone. Every man sins. What does eternal life mean? is it intermittent can it ever be stopped? Is there really an end to eternity? If there is there is no such thing as eternal life. If so there is no reason to continue to seek God.And Salvation is by works. Not grace.
MB
Covenants have rules to follow.
Basically, the rule for BACs is to co-operate with Holy Spirit
... as He leads and guides and helps us!
Or, if one doesn't like that ... how about following Jesus' commandments?
He says those who love Him are the ones who obey His commandments (John 14).
He says those who are His friends are the ones who obey His commandments (John 15).
I say:
Who gets into heaven ...
who does NOT love Jesus, and who is NOT Jesus' friend,
and who does NOT obey Jesus' commandments?
Thou can say that you don't agree with this ...
Just do it ... i.e. Just say so!
Thou won't lose your salvation by just speaking against this.
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Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Samuels!... Do you honestly think, you can attain what The Apostle Paul could not?... Brother Glen
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