Those practicing righteousness are the righteous!

[Samuels]

Brother Glen,

I'll put Romans 6:16-19 against your Romans 7 any day.
Paul clearly says: if you're a slave of sin, eternal death awaits.

Paul gives the solution to your Romans 7 in Romans 8.

 

[Yeshua1]

Brother Glen,

I'll put Romans 6:16-19 against your Romans 7 any day.
Paul clearly says: if you're a slave of sin, eternal death awaits.

Paul gives the solution to your Romans 7 in Romans 8.

Are we under law, or under Grace?

 

[Dave G]

This is so true, especially those who trust in OSAS eternal security.

Then it's a good thing that I don't trust in "eternal security",
but rather what is often referred to as the "perseverance of the saints".

That is what I understand now after many years of studying His precious words.

Seems I'm going to have to list some NT passages, which are
dire warnings that BACs can lose their salvation
(which I have done dozens of times over the years).

There are none.
But if you're referring to the warnings given to professing Christians about continuing in the faith, then there are warnings to all who think that they are Christians to examine themselves whether they be in the faith or not.

 

[Dave G]

Please, don't be like many females on Christian forums who want to make it personal.
We're NOT talking about YOUR glorious walk with the Lord, etc.
We're talking about what the NT says, and warns about, etc.

Samuels,

My relationship with the Lord is very personal;
He's my Savior and my Friend.
When you speak of the God of the Bible and His Son, I would appreciate it if you keep that in mind.

That said, we are indeed talking about glory here, but it's not mine...
It's HIS.
To me, what you are putting forth is no more and no less than salvation by works, and the very same thing that men like John Wesley taught.

The Bible does not teach loss of salvation, and it never has.
It does not teach that our belief is what saves us, and it never has.
It does not teach that man's will is free to do both good or evil, for example...


Rather, it teaches that we are so accustomed to evil,
that we will not do good outside of God's grace through the new birth.

 

[Dave G]

Are you aware that Americans have been dumbed-down
for decades through their education system?

Yes I am.
But "it takes two to tango"...Americans are complicit, just all of us who are members of humanity are, in our own demise.

Also, are you aware that I know full well what America has done?

As a student of its history, I am well aware of its origins and atrocities, breaking of treaties, its wars, and many other things that would fill pages on a forum like this;
Suffice to say, America never was a Christian country in reality, and never will be.
For that to happen, every living person in America would have to be one of God's elect...
And He doesn't work salvation that way.

I am also well aware that it, like every other country on earth, is of this world and will pass away someday soon.

It's no wonder that they cannot understand plain English
(in their Bibles), nor can they think for themselves.

It's not America's "dumbing down" that is the problem, Samuels...
It's their lack of the Holy Spirit in their lives without which no man or woman will ever be able to properly understand or receive His words...

See John 8:43-47 and 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, as well as 1 John 2:20-27.

All of this is so America can be more easily taken over,
which is underway at the present moment.

Question:
Why should I care what ultimately happens to America?

The Lord Jesus is coming again and He will rule from Jerusalem, my friend;
For 1,000 years this world's nations will see what it is to be at enforced peace with each other and to be forced not to wage war anymore.

THAT is what my hope is in;
Him coming again.
Until then, I do my best to hang on in this ugly world and do what He tells me to, pinning my hopes on God's purposes and Him sending His Son soon.
See 1 John 2:15 for an eye-opener...


I think your concern for America could be getting in the way of Someone more important, my friend.

 

[Dave G]

P.S. "initial" means at the first, e.g. when a BAC is foist saved.

The concept of God forgiving only the sins of a person when they "initially" believe, is not declared anywhere in God's word.

To me, that is a faulty conclusion that has been developed ( using information brought in from outside the Scriptures ) in order to help explain away Colossians 2:13-14 ( as well as many others ) that tell believers in Jesus Christ that all of their sins were atoned for at the cross.

Years ago, I might have agreed with your doctrine ...
but I read and understood the NT when I saw the
many dire warnings written to everyone in the churches!
Not to mention those of Jesus spoken to everyone (including you).

Years ago, believe it or not, I almost agreed with what you are preaching.

I thank the Lord that He has shown me the truth about salvation some 18 years ago, now, and I understand passages like Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-31 in the light of the rest of His word.

 

[Dave G]

There are several SIN LISTS in the epistles to the churches.
Please see 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Gal. 5:19-21, Eph. 5:3-6.
Another favorite of mine is Rev. 21:8.

I know them well, Samuels, and I also agree that people who unrepentantly commit those things shall not see the kingdom of God.
Why?
Because they don't have His Holy Spirit in them producing the fruits of the Spirit ( Galatians 5:22-23 ), that's why.

Again, there are people who have religion, and there are people who have a genuine relationship with the living God.
Many are the children of the bondwoman, and few are the children of the free ( Galatians 4:21-31 ).

They state that anyone who is guilty of habitually doing any one
of these sins (w/o repentance) cannot enter the kingdom of God.
IMO, this means they are NOT saved and NOT going to heaven.
Perhaps, you have a different interpretation of these passages?

I don't "interpret" the Bible, my friend...
I believe every word of it.

However, as you can see, I agree with you on this subject...but not in your conclusions.
Where I differ is that I do not believe that people who do these things unrepentantly, despite professing Christ, were ever called into the fellowship of His saints by the power of God.

Therefore, it's not a matter of salvation being lost, but a matter of those people ever actually being saved to begin with.

 

[Dave G]

And we should be talking about how to RECONCILE
the so-called OSAS eternal security NT verses
with
those NT verses which stand against said verses!

If I have not already told you how to reconcile them, then here it is...
You can reconcile them by putting them all back into the text and reading it all as it should be...and not in "verses".
Also, I recommend actually believing what they say, and not conditioning the passages that clearly speak of the security of the believer with the other ones, "pitting Scripture against Scripture".

In addition, they are "verses"... which are snippets of things that the Lord has to say...
Things that I do not believe that you are understanding correctly.

There are no "verses" that stand against the security of God's elect being kept by the power of God in their faith ( 1 Peter 1:5 ).

But, no one desires to RECONCILE all of the NT verses!
Dey prefer to believe in their long-standing false doctrines.
Because they're comfortable ...
and dey prefer what their comfortable churches preach.

I do desire to reconcile all the things that God has to say in His word, Samuels...
And for the most part, I have done so by His grace and mercy.

In fact, I think you'd be both surprised and offended at what He has shown me over the years.

Also, I do not "go to church" anymore,
and have not been in a traditional church for some years now, except for a handful of times.

 

[Dave G]

Covenants have rules to follow.

Israel has been there, done that, "bought the t-shirt and wore it out", Samuels.

Have you learned nothing about human nature and our utter worthlessness at fulfilling covenants?
Has God's word not taught you that just as they could not keep the Law of Moses, so could none of us?
That any covenant built upon our obedience as spiritually dead men would ultimately fail?

The Lord knew that it would, and told Israel in no uncertain terms that they would fail.
See Exodus, Deuteronomy and many more.

That is part of why He sent His Son to earth...
To fulfill the first and initiate a second.
To do away with the temporary, and to instate a permanent one that is of grace ( not laws and rules that we have to obey in order to keep His favor, like the first one did ), that is everlasting and that concerns only the objects of His grace...
The "whosoever believeth" ( John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:37-40 ), chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world ( Romans 8:28-30, Romans 9, Ephesians 1:4-5 ).

We as believers are no longer under the law ( our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ ), but under grace.

Do you understand what it is to be under grace, Samuels?
God does not "grade us" according to our performance.
We are graded on Christ's performance on our behalf and the Holy Spirit's working in us and through us...
We as believers couldn't overcome the flesh and it's desires ( even though we want to ) without the power of God's Spirit on our best day.


Do you not understand imputed righteousness?
It is Christ's efforts at keeping the Law on their behalf, credited by God the Father to every one of His elect and precious children.


How about our efforts as dead-in-sins men and women, versus His efforts in us and through us ( Philippians 2:13 ) as new creatures that are alive in Christ?
Do you understand that spiritually dead men will not come to Him ( John 5:40 ), and that we must be made alive before we are willing to do such a thing?

Basically, the rule for BACs is to co-operate with Holy Spirit
... as He leads and guides and helps us!

I think you've missed the most important thing...

We don't co-operate with God in the matter of our salvation.
He saves and He keeps.
Not one part of our gift of eternal life is either merited or earned in any way, shape or form.

This will be my final reply in this thread.

I wish you well, Samuels, and I hope that someday the Lord shows you what His grace really is.

 

[Samuels]

This will be my final reply in this thread.

Hooray, it's about time!
I hope too many here have not been swayed by your false doctrines ...
e.g. your rejecting of the dire warnings that the Lord has included in His word.

 

[Yeshua1]

Dave, if you are a BAC, you no longer have to sin.
This is what "freed from sin" means.

We will sin though, as still have sin nature and this body of flesh to deal with!

 

[Yeshua1]

Brother Glen,

I'll put Romans 6:16-19 against your Romans 7 any day.
Paul clearly says: if you're a slave of sin, eternal death awaits.

Paul gives the solution to your Romans 7 in Romans 8.

John stated that those who are now saved will no longer have habitual sinning, but he also stated that we shall still be sinning!

 

[Samuels]

The concept of God forgiving only the sins of a person when they "initially" believe,
is not declared anywhere in God's word.

People are forgiven for all of their past sins when they are foist born-again

“… they have been cleansed from their old sins.” 2 Peter 1:9

“old” (NKJV, RSV, NLT) ●●● “former” (NASB, ESV) ●●● “past” (NIV, NCSB)

But, they can also be cleansed of their present and future sins via 1 John 1:9.

 

[MB]

God does NOT practice righteousness for the BAC;
the BAC must do the practicing of righteousness for him/her self.

"If you know that He is righteous,
you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him."
1 John 2:29

"Little children, let no one deceive you.
He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."
1 John 3:7

"In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God,
nor is he who does not love his brother."
1 John 3:10

Of course, we need to understand ...
God only invites into heaven those whom He sees as being righteous.

So what about the man who practices righteousness yet does not believe in Christ. Is he saved because of his works or because of his faith?
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
MB

 

[Samuels]

So what about the man who practices righteousness yet does not believe in Christ.
Is he saved because of his works or because of his faith?

Obviously, the man who practices righteousness w/o being born-again is wasting his time
... unless he responds to God's invitation to believe in Jesus and His gospel.
The Lord gave Lydia the necessary faith to believe what Paul was saying.
She was a worshipper of God, which probably made the difference.

 

[MB]

Obviously, the man who practices righteousness w/o being born-again is wasting his time
... unless he responds to God's invitation to believe in Jesus and His gospel.
The Lord gave Lydia the necessary faith to believe what Paul was saying.
She was a worshipper of God, which probably made the difference.

Act_16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
The Lord gives faith through His Word which is why it's so important that we tell the world.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
You are right my friend we must all respond to the invitation.
MB

 

[utilyan]

We will sin though, as still have sin nature and this body of flesh to deal with!

Excuses excuses excuses. We don’t know if we’ll sin tomorrow we might drop dead today or God might personally walk on over to set you straight, you aren’t a prophet.

Makes me cringe when the supposedly faithful also think God is a horrible teacher with the worst record of helping anyone.

 

[Yeshua1]

Excuses excuses excuses. We don’t know if we’ll sin tomorrow we might drop dead today or God might personally walk on over to set you straight, you aren’t a prophet.

Makes me cringe when the supposedly faithful also think God is a horrible teacher with the worst record of helping anyone.

Are you a sinner?

 

[AustinC]

Act_16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
The Lord gives faith through His Word which is why it's so important that we tell the world.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
You are right my friend we must all respond to the invitation.
MB

Your text, however, shows that not all respond. The Bible tells us why, but you reject the reason it gives.

 

[utilyan]

Are you a sinner?

Yes and it’s my fault, not because God neglected to give me a spiritual Liver or any other excuse.