Those who have never heard

Could that also be the case with the rest of Romans, too?

 

Good illustration supporting OSAS...

 

What do you mean?

 

Romans 9-11 is often said this is in reference to individual salvation, while I believe, as you stated in Romans 1, it is dealing with a nation.

 

I am not sure how you can get that from Romans 1. The idea that a history of the world is being presented in Romans 1 I received from the text itself.

 

No, I don't think that aspect has been discussed. I don't believe I have ever heard that before.
Please explain.

 

When I read Romans 1 I see the Apostle describing God's wrath against all ungodliness from the beginning of creation. And it appears that from this original rejection (thinking of the fall of Adam, and thus mankind in Adam) men have continued to fall away from the true knowledge of God being One and all powerful Maker of Heaven and Earth, and into idolatry, which the history of the world shows us plainly, and fell into greater depravity because God gave them up to uncleaness (He did not restrain their wicked inclinations) even unto to vile affections and a reprobate mind, again, God giving them over to it, that is, not restraining it.

So in that sense I see it as a history of the world.

 

Nope brother..... i've got trees in mine.

 

How do the elect figure into this? I see the world going downhill, at least up to time of Noah, for example. Which brings me to another question. All the people during Noah's day were non-elect? Only Noah and his family were elect? I'm having a problem with this election process.

 

Specifically, I can accept #'s 1 and 2, but #3 and forward can not be deduced from general revelation/nature. The method by which man rationalizes that he will be forgiven is self-atonement through personal righteousness. No one can know God's "method", i.e. substitutionary atonement, without special revelation (directly from God or from scripture).

BTW there is a theory called scripturalism espoused by Dr. Gorden Clark and others that proposes that we can no NOTHING apart from scripture. I don't wholly endorse the theory, but it does bring up some interesting questions.

For example, how would you know that the heavens delcare the glory of God if you had not read it in scripture? How would you know that they are without excuse if you had not read it in scripture? How would you know anything of God unless the scripture had revealed?

Any way, I think ReformedBaptist has a good grasp on the Romans 1 passage and I think both of us can learn something from him.

 

Well, I think we can look to the Scripture and see how God speaks about Noah and the people of his day that perished in the flood. Check out Heb 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; and 2 Peter 2:5.

I'd write more, but I gotta run...I will be away on business a few days.