Those Who Never Heard the Gospel

[Moriah]

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me".

If God saved man without man having to trust Christ, God would be proving His Son to be a liar.

You say you don't like DHK or myself saying Jesus is made to be a liar? Well, there is a solution to that...

Stop making Him to be a liar by saying people can be saved without knowing Him.

Your misunderstanding does not make what I say the equivalent to Jesus being a liar.

So stop with that type of debate technique.

I know Jesus personally. No creepy things you say to me will take me out of God’s hands. So stop trying.

All must go through Jesus. When a person dies, they will be judged. No one is going to get past God, whether they know of Him or not.

 

[Moriah]

You say the mentally challenged cannot hear the Gospel.

You do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.

Jesus told the Apostles to go into the world and preach the Gospel to every creature.

Why would He tell them to preach to someone who cannot hear? It is obvious the mentally challenged are able to hear more than you are willing to give them credit for.

Faith comes from hearing. If a person does not have the mental capacity to understand, then they do not.

Now stop with the ignorant talk.

 

[DHK]

A person who has never heard the truth must also be considered. You have not shown the difference between an infant, the mentally disabled, or a person who has never heard the truth.

Those spoken of have never heard the truth in that they are alike.

I grew up in the RCC. I never heard the gospel preached in the RCC, and didn't until I was 20. Had I died at the age of 19, I would have gone to Hell, but you say I would have gone to heaven. Correct? That is your theology. What is the difference between my testimony and others "who have never heard the gospel?" There is none.
At 19 I had the capacity to believe but not the opportunity to believe. I had never heard the gospel.
At 3 months an infant neither has the capacity nor the opportunity. You really foolishly cannot understand that difference.
In my case someone had not come and explained the gospel to me. Thankfully someone eventually did. Why someone didn't come earlier I don't know. They could have. There was opportunity. I am just so glad that someone did share the gospel with me. How many do you pass on the street, and they pass into eternity because you don't share the gospel with them?

Be respectful when you debate and when you speak about Jesus. Stop saying Jesus is a liar. I do not care what way you mean to say it, just do not say it. It is a bad debate technique, and it proves nothing but a bad and disrespectful technique.

I believe Christ. Jesus didn't lie. Do you believe John 14:6? Yes or no? A one word answer will do. Do you believe what he said in John 14:6, that he is the only way to heaven?

Jesus is the only way to the Father. Everyone will be judged after they die. When Jesus judges, it will be through him.

And he has said that he is the only way to the Father. "No man comes to the Father but by Him." Did he lie?

The only thing you have proven is that you do not have understanding.

How so. Demonstrate it or retract your statement. I have a great understanding of John 14:6 and the sad thing is, is that you want to deny the very truths of this verse.

People will be judged according to their sins what they did in their body. To say that Jesus does not consider if they heard God’s word or not is just irresponsible nonsense teaching.

No they won't. This is an irresponsible teaching.
People will be judged according to whether they have accepted Christ or not.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
--If they never knew Jesus they will depart from Him into the Lake of Fire.
It is on the basis of whether they knew Jesus or not.

Stop with the evil accusations. You do not understand the Word of God. You make accusations that would make the devil smile.

The above is an evil accusation made by yourself. Did you not notice that?
I told you the truth.
It is the truth that we are responsible to carry out the Great Commission.
Do you believe that truth? Yes or no?
Here is another truth for you to meditate on:

Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
--The Lord has set you as a watchman. The sword, judgment is coming. If you fail to warn them with the gospel message, then their blood will be upon your hands. The message was given to Ezekiel for Israel. But the principle can still be applied for today.

You do not understand God, so no wonder you say such things.

You are accountable for the spiritual welfare of your neighbor. Jesus said your neighbor is the world.
Love your neighbor as yourself. Do you obey that command?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Isn't it funny that Moriah says to be respectful when you debate, then calls us ignorant?

Funny? or hypocritical?

 

[Fred's Wife]

Faith comes from hearing. If a person does not have the mental capacity to understand, then they do not.

Since when is it up to you or anybody else, for that matter, to determine whether or not a person has the "mental capacity to understand" the gospel of salvation? Unless you have a "seat" in that mentally challenged person's brain, you do not know what that person hears or understands.

Now stop with the ignorant talk.

I believe you need to stop limiting God. The "ignorant talk" seems to be on your side of the fence.

 

[Moriah]

Isn't it funny that Moriah says to be respectful when you debate, then calls us ignorant?

Funny? or hypocritical?

Ignorant means lack of knowledge of something.

That is neither so funny nor hypocritical. You are just a person with unrest.

 

[Moriah]

Since when is it up to you or anybody else, for that matter, to determine whether or not a person has the "mental capacity to understand" the gospel of salvation? Unless you have a "seat" in that mentally challenged person's brain, you do not know what that person hears or understands.

I believe you need to stop limiting God. The "ignorant talk" seems to be on your side of the fence.

More ignorant talk.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Your misunderstanding does not make what I say the equivalent to Jesus being a liar.

So stop with that type of debate technique.

I know Jesus personally. No creepy things you say to me will take me out of God’s hands. So stop trying.

All must go through Jesus. When a person dies, they will be judged. No one is going to get past God, whether they know of Him or not.

Well, you've opened yourself up to vitriol by daring to disagree with Fred. I will not try to engage him further in respectable debate. Good luck.

 

[Alive in Christ]

According to the spiritual truth found in John1, 1-13....

There is nobody who has not heard.

The scriptures are clear as a bell that God gives "Light" (potentially saving revelation) to "every person who comes into the world".

And praise the Lord for that!

Everyone hears, and everyone has opportunity

 

[Steadfast Fred]

According to the spiritual truth found in John1, 1-13....

There is nobody who has not heard.

The scriptures are clear as a bell that God gives "Light" (potentially saving revelation) to "every person who comes into the world".

And praise the Lord for that!

Everyone hears, and everyone has opportunity

Exactly! EVeryone has opportunity to accept the Gospel.

Sadly, many reject it in favor of the doctrines of proscelytizers who teach them they can enter heaven by means other than the Door.

 

[Moriah]

According to the spiritual truth found in John1, 1-13....

There is nobody who has not heard.

The scriptures are clear as a bell that God gives "Light" (potentially saving revelation) to "every person who comes into the world".

And praise the Lord for that!

Everyone hears, and everyone has opportunity

Another person without understanding, without understanding of earthly things, or Spiritual things, on this topic anyway.


Tell us how severely autistic, mentally retarded person understands the message when they do not even understand enough English to understand about much of anything?

 

[Moriah]

Well, you've opened yourself up to vitriol by daring to disagree with Fred. I will not try to engage him further in respectable debate. Good luck.

All the braying from DHK, Steadfastfred, His wife, and the Biblicist, it is giving me cause to log off for a while.
I must learn how to ignore their posts, and not even glance at them.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

We don't 'bray', we proclaim the truth.

If it sounds like 'braying' to you, then it is because you close your ears to the truth.

 

[The Biblicist]

All the braying from DHK, Steadfastfred, His wife, and the Biblicist, it is giving me cause to log off for a while.
I must learn how to ignore their posts, and not even glance at them.

What you need to "learn" is the truth as you are completely deceived by false doctrine.

 

[Moriah]

What you need to "learn" is the truth as you are completely deceived by false doctrine.

You did not even know what the New Covenant was.
You have so many false beliefs you should repent and start all over.

 

[Tom Butler]

I believe that the scripture you are talking about in Romans 2 is about saved Gentiles.

About Gentiles, but not necessarily saved Gentiles.

Jews have the law of Moses, and Paul says it is a schoolmaster that teaches us that it is impossible to keep it perfectly. Thus, our need for a Savior.

Gentiles do have a moral code (written on their hearts), and their problem is the same as the Jews. They can't even keep their own law.

Either way, they will have no excuse.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Another person without understanding, without understanding of earthly things, or Spiritual things, on this topic anyway.

I am simply AGREEING with the scriptural truth God has given us regarding this matter. Why dont YOU start agreeing with God?

Tell us how severely autistic, mentally retarded person understands the message when they do not even understand enough English to understand about much of anything?

You would be very very surprised as to what those dear ones understand.

 

[DHK]

Tell us how severely autistic, mentally retarded person understands the message when they do not even understand enough English to understand about much of anything?

Why are you fixated on this topic when it does not relate to the OP.
Leave it alone.
Why don't you answer my post to you?
What are you doing about the Great Commission?
Do you really love your neighbor (the world) as yourself?
If you are so concerned about those that have never heard the gospel, why don't you do something about it.
What the Bible teaches about this, is that if YOU allow them to die without the gospel, then their blood will be on your hands. What part are you playing in getting the gospel out to these people that you keep referring to?

 

[The Biblicist]

You did not even know what the New Covenant was.
You have so many false beliefs you should repent and start all over.

You have no concept whatsoever about the New Covenant. You don't know one single Biblical truth about it. Your doctrine perverts every single aspect of it.

A covenant is an agreement between two or more persons and in regard to the "blood of the EVERLASTING covenant" it was an agreement and committment between the Three Persons of the Godhead before the world began (Eph. 1:4-13). You nor Satan took any part in that covenant because neither had been yet created.

That covenant is the the covenant of "grace" and without that covenant there is no "grace" for salvation of anyone at anytime in history.

"Noah FOUND GRACE in the eyes of the Lord."

This is PRE-Moses and PRE-Abrahamic and demonstrates the "covenant" of grace is an "EVERLASTING covenant" applied before the cross to every single Old Testament saint through faith in the coming Christ just as Acts 10:43; Rom. 3:24-26 and Hebrews 4:2 explicitly and clearly state and just as Romans 4 illustrates in the person of Abraham and Hebews 11 illustrate in all the pre-cross saints.

You know nothing about the "everlasting covenant" of grace. You have invented some kind of false covenant you call grace that begins on Pentecost thus leaving all Pre-Pentecostal human beings WITHOUT grace and yet "grace" is taught thoroughly in the Old Testament scriptures.

You don't know the difference between the PUBLIC administration and RATIFICATION of a covenant versus its APPLICATION.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are giving the hard core Covenant theology view here...

You do realise many, dispy such as myself, would not see the scriptures in the same light?

As we do NOT recognize either Covenant between the trinity, not that of Works as in the bible!