Time of Creation

[JD731]

When does the Bible say people were created: Less than 7000 years ago? More than 13,000 years ago?
When does the Bible say the earth was created? Within a few days of humans being created. Several indeterminate periods, possibly thousands or millions of years long, before humans?

The answers are not blowing in the wind, but are made clear in scripture. See Job 38 for the answer.

If we estimate the generation time span for all the generations, listed specifically in scripture, from Adam to Jesus, we can "guess" humans were created less than 7000 years ago. And we can guess the days of creation were 24 hour days, or indeterminate periods of time, but we still should know we do not know the answer to either question, based on Job 38.

Sometimes we read that the Universe started with a "Big Bang" more than 14 billion years ago. Now if we were at the place where the big bang occurred and watched as the universe expanded to what we believe is its present location, we would have watched for about 14 billion years. However, if we were at the place where the big bang occurred and "rode" the expanding stuff (energy or matter or combo) traveling at the speed of light, we would arrive at its present expansion is not 14 billion years but in less than 14 seconds.

Rather than indicate I have any understanding of the foregoing, I cling to Job 38 and say I really do not know!

Like you, Van, I am ignorant about many things, but not about how old the earth is. If one believes the words of God and follows his logic and learns his ways, he will understand the earth and the heavens are 6000 years old now and will be renovated with fire at the end of seven thousand years when time as we know it now will come to an end in the eternal state where nothing ages any more.

1 ¶ And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The words of the prophets that many reject will be confirmed in that day.

When God decided to make a man, he knew the man will need a place because all created beings need a place and can occupy only one place at a time. If a created being moves, it will be to a another place. That is the reason there is a new heaven and a new earth for the redeemed and a place called the lake of fire for the rebels. Everyone must have a place. The lake of fire is a place where the omnipresent God chooses not to be and even says he forgets about it.

God does not need a place. This is the reason the lake of fire is described as such a horrible place and why it has it's characteristics.

Re 22:1 ¶ And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

 

[Van]

By ignoring Job 28, some claim to know when God created and formed the earth. They ignorantly claim creation days had to be 24 hour days, even though the Sun and the rotating earth had not been formed to establish our 24 hour days.

 

[Piers Plowman]

Like you, Van, I am ignorant about many things, but not about how old the earth is. If one believes the words of God and follows his logic and learns his ways, he will understand the earth and the heavens are 6000 years old now and will be renovated with fire at the end of seven thousand years when time as we know it now will come to an end in the eternal state where nothing ages any more.

1 ¶ And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The words of the prophets that many reject will be confirmed in that day.

When God decided to make a man, he knew the man will need a place because all created beings need a place and can occupy only one place at a time. If a created being moves, it will be to a another place. That is the reason there is a new heaven and a new earth for the redeemed and a place called the lake of fire for the rebels. Everyone must have a place. The lake of fire is a place where the omnipresent God chooses not to be and even says he forgets about it.

God does not need a place. This is the reason the lake of fire is described as such a horrible place and why it has it's characteristics.

Re 22:1 ¶ And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

I am interested in what refutations I could use, in instances where evolutionists keep pulling that 'carbon dating' card. Really grinds my gears when they do that

 

[Scarlett O.]

By ignoring Job 28, some claim to know when God created and formed the earth. They ignorantly claim creation days had to be 24 hour days, even though the Sun and the rotating earth had not been formed to establish our 24 hour days.

I don't believe it to be ignorant to believe that creation days were 24 hours just because the Sun wasn't created until day four. In my junior high science classes, of course, I taught the processes and purposes of the Sun and Moon. We know how necessary they are and how they affect the earth.

The first thing that God created was light. Not the Sun, but nevertheless light. A supernatural source. A source that in the end of things will perhaps come back. Revelation says that there will be no sun or moon in the end as God will be the light.

And the Bible states that "morning" and "evening" were the first day. We define morning and evening by the presence or absence of light.

Whatever that light was and however God chose to relate it to the earth, I believe that there was a rotating and revolving earth before the Sun and Moon were made. And it rotated and revolved around that "light".

Creation doesn't have to be on our level of limited understanding for it to have happened the way the Bible said that it did.

That's what makes God supernatural. He transcends our limited minds.

 

[Van]

I don't believe it to be ignorant to believe that creation days were 24 hours just because the Sun wasn't created until day four. In my junior high science classes, of course, I taught the processes and purposes of the Sun and Moon. We know how necessary they are and how they affect the earth.

The first thing that God created was light. Not the Sun, but nevertheless light. A supernatural source. A source that in the end of things will perhaps come back. Revelation says that there will be no sun or moon in the end as God will be the light.

And the Bible states that "morning" and "evening" were the first day. We define morning and evening by the presence or absence of light.

Whatever that light was and however God chose to relate it to the earth, I believe that there was a rotating and revolving earth before the Sun and Moon were made. And it rotated and revolved around that "light".

Creation doesn't have to be on our level of limited understanding for it to have happened the way the Bible said that it did.

That's what makes God supernatural. He transcends our limited minds.

You can believe the earth had been formed and was rotating before a source of light before day four. However, your belief seems inconsistent with Genesis 1:9-18.

Since vegetation grew upon the earth on day 3, the unseparated light from God's light provided the necessary energy.

Genesis 1:14
Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; ​

1)The separation of day and night was created on day 4. Hence 24 hour days were necessitated on that day, but not before.

2) Verse 15 says the Sun gave light upon the earth, replacing the initial light. You have the earth formed and daylight and night beforehand.

3) Only on day 4, verse 18 is the light and darkness separated.

4) The separation occurred because of our sun's point source and our rotating earth, which were established on day 4 of creation.

 

[JD731]

I am interested in what refutations I could use, in instances where evolutionists keep pulling that 'carbon dating' card. Really grinds my gears when they do that

1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

If a man will not believe the simple gospel of Jesus Christ he is liable to fall for anything. It takes a lot more faith to believe that carbon dating, which has been used to date a live animal at one million years old, is accurate, than to believe that the God of heaven took on the form of a man and was born into the world, lived an absolutely perfect life and then paid the sentence of death in his own body for every man, all of whom have sinned, and are forgiven and cleansed just by exercising the faith of a child and believing in him.

There will be many men twisting in hell for eternity who were too smart to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ while trying to make people around them think they are saved.

 

[JD731]

You can believe the earth had been formed and was rotating before a source of light before day four. However, your belief seems inconsistent with Genesis 1:9-18.

Since vegetation grew upon the earth on day 3, the unseparated light from God's light provided the necessary energy.

Genesis 1:14
Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; ​

1)The separation of day and night was created on day 4. Hence 24 hour days were necessitated on that day, but not before.

2) Verse 15 says the Sun gave light upon the earth, replacing the initial light. You have the earth formed and daylight and night beforehand.

3) Only on day 4, verse 18 is the light and darkness separated.

4) The separation occurred because of our sun's point source and our rotating earth, which were established on day 4 of creation.

Where do you think light came from, Van? God is light.

The day of the LORD is comming. God will not be present on the earth and that day is described by the prophets a darkness and not light. It is thick darkess in one place.

Look at who is the light of the world.

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

We know now that it is the Spirit of God who was in Jesus.

How do we know? Here.

John 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

1 Th 5: But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The church of Jesus Christ is walking in the light and is not connected to the dark, having had our eyes opened.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

2 Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him (this is the rapture of the church just prior to the day of the Lord light is separated from darkness),

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (see note)

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


NOTE
Light will be separated from darkness and for 3.5 years there will be no deity ministering on the earth. This is the meaning of the darkness.Absence of God is the absence of light. The Spirit is ministering in the church now and gives us light, but at the rapture the Spirit will be taken away in the church of Jesus Christ.Jesus Christ will return in light when these days are over and darkness will be dispelled by his presence on the earth and the man of sin will be cast into darkness of the lake of fire.In the eternal state there will be no night there!

In the beginning God said every day he created, except one, was good,

 

[Van]

LOL, now we have someone who thinks someone might believe God is not light? Or that God is physical light, and not the illumination of truth.

No need to change the subject. Those that believe scripture teaches the creation days were 24 hour days, believe in speculation that is possibly true, but their inability to recognize it might not be true, in defiance of Job 38, is troubling.

 

[Scarlett O.]

You can believe the earth had been formed and was rotating before a source of light before day four. However, your belief seems inconsistent with Genesis 1:9-18.

Since vegetation grew upon the earth on day 3, the unseparated light from God's light provided the necessary energy.

Genesis 1:14
Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; ​

1)The separation of day and night was created on day 4. Hence 24 hour days were necessitated on that day, but not before.

2) Verse 15 says the Sun gave light upon the earth, replacing the initial light. You have the earth formed and daylight and night beforehand.

3) Only on day 4, verse 18 is the light and darkness separated.

4) The separation occurred because of our sun's point source and our rotating earth, which were established on day 4 of creation.

I guess I just don't understand you.

The Bible says that earth was created on day 1. Then light is spoken into being. There was a morning and evening. How could that be with no rotation?

Day 2, the earth gets a sky and atmosphere. Another morning and evening. Ergo, a rotation.

Day 3, land, mountains, terrain, and seas. Plants everywhere. Another morning and evening. Ergo, a rotation.

Why do you believe the earth, created on day one, did not rotate until day 4?

 

[Piers Plowman]

I guess I just don't understand you.

The Bible says that earth was created on day 1. Then light is spoken into being. There was a morning and evening. How could that be with no rotation?

Day 2, the earth gets a sky and atmosphere. Another morning and evening. Ergo, a rotation.

Day 3, land, mountains, terrain, and seas. Plants everywhere. Another morning and evening. Ergo, a rotation.

Why do you believe the earth, created on day one, did not rotate until day 4?

Geocentrists, on the other hand, use this passage as one of their proofs.

 

[JD731]

I guess I just don't understand you.

The Bible says that earth was created on day 1. Then light is spoken into being. There was a morning and evening. How could that be with no rotation?

Day 2, the earth gets a sky and atmosphere. Another morning and evening. Ergo, a rotation.

Day 3, land, mountains, terrain, and seas. Plants everywhere. Another morning and evening. Ergo, a rotation.

Why do you believe the earth, created on day one, did not rotate until day 4?

Who said the day and night were defined by light and dark? It seems like God defined it by hours in the day.


John 11:9
Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

In 1 Thess 5 it is the drunk man who stumbles because he is in the dark while the sober man walks in the light.

The word of God is likewise light and one needs not stumble about the creation. There is plenty of light for the Bible believer. The man who does not have the Bible will be prone to stumble.

Psa 119 says;
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding to the simple.

That is me. Simple.

Psalm 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

 

[Van]

I guess I just don't understand you.

The Bible says that earth was created on day 1. Then light is spoken into being. There was a morning and evening. How could that be with no rotation?

Day 2, the earth gets a sky and atmosphere. Another morning and evening. Ergo, a rotation.

Day 3, land, mountains, terrain, and seas. Plants everywhere. Another morning and evening. Ergo, a rotation.

Why do you believe the earth, created on day one, did not rotate until day 4?

Yes you do not understand my view of Genesis 1. You have night and day on day 1. I have night and day on day 4.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Geocentrists, on the other hand, use this passage as one of their proofs.

Well, they are wrong.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Who said the day and night were defined by light and dark? It seems like God defined it by hours in the day.

Who said that day was light and night was dark??

Um......God did.

Genesis 1:5 = "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

 

[Scarlett O.]

Yes you do not understand my view of Genesis 1. You have night and day on day 1. I have night and day on day 4.

Ok, but the Bible contradicts you. There was day and night on the first day.

Day 1. Light and dark. Day and Night.

Genesis 1:4-5 = "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I'm going to leave ya'll with this. We will never agree. And I'm not going to beat a dead horse.

 

[Piers Plowman]

Well, they are wrong.

Well now, what is wrong with geocentrism? What scientifically consequential difference could there be between geocentrism and heliocentrism? After all, for those who subscribe to the view of continually expanding universe, the center of the universe then becomes dependent on the reference frame of the observer's choosing.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Well now, what is wrong with geocentrism? What scientifically consequential difference could there be between geocentrism and heliocentrism? After all, for those who subscribe to the view of continually expanding universe, the center of the universe then becomes dependent on the reference frame of the observer's choosing.

...the observer's choosing....

Ergo, the fallacy.

 

[Piers Plowman]

...the observer's choosing....

Ergo, the fallacy.

I mean, this is an actual thing.
https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshe...cle_Physics_and_Cosmology/11.07:_The_Big_Bang
'The “center of expansion” does not exist, so Earth does not reside at the “privileged” center of the expansion.'

 

[Piers Plowman]

Consider also: Tychonic system - Wikipedia