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Tithing - Yes or NO - Part II
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Alive in Christ
New Member
Tithing has no part in New Covenant/New Testament church giving.
Freewill giving is the form that we use...
:godisgood:
Freewill giving is the form that we use...
:godisgood:
Alive in Christ said:
Do you love the Lord to give 10% or more 10% or more?
Do you love your church to give 10% or more?
When you sing the hymn that says, "All my silver and my gold, not a mite would I with hold," are you telling the truth?
Many years ago, way back in the 1960's I heard a sermon by a Christian scientist. In the sermon he said that if we really wanted to find out what Americans are really Christian all we have to do is pass a law saying that 70% of all Christian earnings have to be given to the church. The churches would be almost empty .... so he said.
Frankly, I have discovered that I cannot afford to not give 10% or more.
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Alive in Christ
New Member
Crabtown Boy,
My love for my Lord can not be quantified by any amount of $$$$$.
To guage a persons love for God by $$$$$$ is unthinkable in my opinion. Borderline blasphemous.
Considering how wonderfully Christ has changed my life, and how blessed I am as a result of Christs life living inside of me, all the money in the world couldnt come close to being enough.
Regarding how we are to "give" in regard to our place of fellowship, the 10% tithing obligation has had no part in that, and has not for over 2000 years now.
Tithing ended with the end of the Old Covenant.
Under the New Covenant, it is clear...
God would rather have someone give 10 cents joyfully...than 2 thousand dollars under compultion, and under the ridiculous warning that they are supposedly "robbing" God.
Giving freely and joyfully will not allow a person to give a pittance, if they can afford to give more. They simply couldnt do it joyfully.
I just cringe every time a hear any pastor using legalistic threatenings and blatant "fear tactics" to encourage BIG $$$$ donations. Shame on them.
:godisgood:
My love for my Lord can not be quantified by any amount of $$$$$.
To guage a persons love for God by $$$$$$ is unthinkable in my opinion. Borderline blasphemous.
Considering how wonderfully Christ has changed my life, and how blessed I am as a result of Christs life living inside of me, all the money in the world couldnt come close to being enough.
Regarding how we are to "give" in regard to our place of fellowship, the 10% tithing obligation has had no part in that, and has not for over 2000 years now.
Tithing ended with the end of the Old Covenant.
Under the New Covenant, it is clear...
God would rather have someone give 10 cents joyfully...than 2 thousand dollars under compultion, and under the ridiculous warning that they are supposedly "robbing" God.
Giving freely and joyfully will not allow a person to give a pittance, if they can afford to give more. They simply couldnt do it joyfully.
I just cringe every time a hear any pastor using legalistic threatenings and blatant "fear tactics" to encourage BIG $$$$ donations. Shame on them.
:godisgood:
It's sure hard for our people to give when our church budgets are more about helping the staff and needless building improvement line items rather than using the funds to reach the lost, care for the needy, and support missions. I've had more than one parishioner ask me why "XYZ Church" budget has a third dedicated to debt service, almost half to staffing and personnel, one sixth to building activities, and the other sixth to everything else.
The tithe is a good mark to use, but the New Testament is clear that our giving isn't to be legalistic or demanded by men but used to honor God as we see fit. Often in the NT the churches gave more than 10%. My wife and I use 10% as a starting point and support several ministries through our giving.
Its really interesting to hear pastors speak about giving and the rhetoric they use to support their argumens. Sometimes it makes me wonder what is their true motivation...their salary or God's glory.
The tithe is a good mark to use, but the New Testament is clear that our giving isn't to be legalistic or demanded by men but used to honor God as we see fit. Often in the NT the churches gave more than 10%. My wife and I use 10% as a starting point and support several ministries through our giving.
Its really interesting to hear pastors speak about giving and the rhetoric they use to support their argumens. Sometimes it makes me wonder what is their true motivation...their salary or God's glory.
I would tithe, but unfortunately...
1) I'm not under the law.
2) I don't grow any crops.
3) I'm nowhere near Israel. (I guess I'd have to sell my crops to buy strong drink.)
4) I see no NT reference that New Covenant believers should tithe. (And no, the references to tithing and the Pharisees don't count. The Mosaic Law was still binding then.)
If you feel led to give 10%, by all means do so. If God is leading you differently, then follow God's lead.
1) I'm not under the law.
2) I don't grow any crops.
3) I'm nowhere near Israel. (I guess I'd have to sell my crops to buy strong drink.)
4) I see no NT reference that New Covenant believers should tithe. (And no, the references to tithing and the Pharisees don't count. The Mosaic Law was still binding then.)
If you feel led to give 10%, by all means do so. If God is leading you differently, then follow God's lead.
preachinjesus said:Its really interesting to hear pastors speak about giving and the rhetoric they use to support their argumens. Sometimes it makes me wonder what is their true motivation...their salary or God's glory.
I always hear arguments for tithing pegged to faith. That is, if you don't tithe, you don't have faith, etc. etc. Then I hear someone say that the tithe is how the church is funded.
I've yet to hear someone make the argument that the church should have faith that God will lead his people to give according to the needs of the church.
Alive in Christ said:
Grace giving, not guilt giving.
You can quote that if you wish. I agree 100%.
I don't respond to vague allusions to the OT combined with guilt trips. I want NT scripture that says New Covenant believers are supposed to tithe. No one can provide this.
What I like about the tithe is that it is very easy to calculate. What I don't like about it is that it can become a prideful stumbling block.
I want to be among those who cheerfully and freely give because of the joy and contentment that come withat type of giving. BTW, in my experience, some ways that you can know that type of joy and contentment:
- when your giving consistently exceeds 10% of your income and you look for Macedonian ways to give (i.e. giving past the point where it seriously impacts your lifestyle).
- when you are able to successfully separate the concept of your personal giving and your involvement in/concern about how the leadership is taking the church in terms of budget priorities.
- when your other investments, personal budgeting, saving for spending on big ticket items, etc... all come within the context of your desire to joyously give.
- when you give joyously through the storehouse/church AND look for ways to be generous to folks in need in your neighborhood, in the checkout lane at the grocery store, at the office, driving down the road, and so on.
I confess to not being anywhere near what I'd like to be concerning many of the above points but am very happy to be further along than I was last year at this time.
I want to be among those who cheerfully and freely give because of the joy and contentment that come withat type of giving. BTW, in my experience, some ways that you can know that type of joy and contentment:
- when your giving consistently exceeds 10% of your income and you look for Macedonian ways to give (i.e. giving past the point where it seriously impacts your lifestyle).
- when you are able to successfully separate the concept of your personal giving and your involvement in/concern about how the leadership is taking the church in terms of budget priorities.
- when your other investments, personal budgeting, saving for spending on big ticket items, etc... all come within the context of your desire to joyously give.
- when you give joyously through the storehouse/church AND look for ways to be generous to folks in need in your neighborhood, in the checkout lane at the grocery store, at the office, driving down the road, and so on.
I confess to not being anywhere near what I'd like to be concerning many of the above points but am very happy to be further along than I was last year at this time.
saturneptune
New Member
I agree with that, and only use the tithe as a general mathmatical tool. If one goes by the OT, I have heard so many ways that applies that it gets ridiculous. One is net, one is gross, one is gross plus benefits, and one says after all needs are met.StefanM said:
Pressure, guilt, and manipulation has never been present in my local church, but if it were, they would find themselves about 10% short of a postal salary.
I once read an article, and do not remember where, about a church in Kansas that published the offerings of each member, then their salary, and the third column was a percentage. That would have been my last Sunday there.
There should be a balance here though. I could not support a budget that fully supports missions while the staff lives in poverty or barely above poverty (I don't think this is what you are saying though). There are biblical principles concerning a laborer being worthy of his hire and a pastor being supported financially by those sitting under his ministry. Also, pastor's should be speaking about giving since it is in Scripture, but once again there should be a balance in their rhetoric...it should not be self-serving, but it should be biblical. I'm pretty sure you would agree, but upon first reading your post it could be interpreted differently!preachinjesus said:It's sure hard for our people to give when our church budgets are more about helping the staff and needless building improvement line items rather than using the funds to reach the lost, care for the needy, and support missions. I've had more than one parishioner ask me why "XYZ Church" budget has a third dedicated to debt service, almost half to staffing and personnel, one sixth to building activities, and the other sixth to everything else.
The tithe is a good mark to use, but the New Testament is clear that our giving isn't to be legalistic or demanded by men but used to honor God as we see fit. Often in the NT the churches gave more than 10%. My wife and I use 10% as a starting point and support several ministries through our giving.
Its really interesting to hear pastors speak about giving and the rhetoric they use to support their argumens. Sometimes it makes me wonder what is their true motivation...their salary or God's glory.
annsni said:
Same here. We decided before we were married that we should give at least 10% and we were POOR when we were first married. And as I said earlier, I have found that I cannot afford not to tithe. I see it not as a law, but as a show of appreciation for what God has given me, and also because I believe the need of my fellow Christians should be met. Interestingly our little church was giving about $350 each week over our budgeted needs when I left for Prague in October. It is the only church I have ever belonged to that has always, through giving, met or exceeded the budget. Others in our little church fell like you Annsni.
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Crabtownboy said:
I understand this sentiment. Good for you. for some 10% is too much ie 10% for people making 500 a week is much more difficult than 10 % for people making 5,000 a week. 50 could be a survival issue. 500 might be a decision to pay a smaller mortgage or do without Blue ray players.
Fawn said:I heard a pastor say (when he was asked what a Christian should tithe) somewhere between 10%, where the OT law left off, and what Christ paid. Sounds like a good ballpark to me.
I totally agree. :wavey:
Alcott said:
You ask the wrong question.
I have found that the blessings that have come to me through the years are worth more than 10% of what I made.
Do you remember my rules for handing money that I have posted several times?
My rule of thumb is that the tithe is minimum and it goes to the local church, then offerings. On the other hand, I believe that family comes first and one's family should not suffer financial need in order to tithe. I am not talking about wasting monies, but real need. Don't ask me for chapter and verse. It is simple fact of life for me.
Cheers,
Jim
Cheers,
Jim