Tithing - Yes or NO - Part II

[Alive in Christ]

Saturneptune,

"I once read an article, and do not remember where, about a church in Kansas that published the offerings of each member, then their salary, and the third column was a percentage. That would have been my last Sunday there."

They will answer to God one day for that evil.



But the obvious implication of that is that the pastor obviously requires all potential *members* to give him that information.

It is at THAT point that I would fly out of that pastors office so fast he would think the rapture has occured and he got left out. :laugh:


:godisgood:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Crabtownboy,

"4-Because God blessed the tither in the OT. Why would the unchangable God change in this regard?"

Because the tithing requirment ended with the new covenant. It is not applicable today.

"Let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

Tithing is giving under compulsion.

1) Calculate your income
2) Calculate 10% of that
3) You owe us/God that much, so you must give it to us.

Thats giving under compulsion.

Theres nothing wrong with giving 10%...if...you...want...to.

But you dont have to.

Theres also nothing wrong with someone else having no systematic giving at all, if they dont want to, but rather simply giving what they believe they are led to give when the basket comes arround.

Our church doesnt teach tithing and nobody...meaning the church staff...keeps track of giving in any way. Some people dont have much, so they cant give much...but they give joyfully. (Remember the widows mite?)

But someone...anonymously...about 2 months ago put in a gift of 5 thousand dollars. We still dont know who it was.

Praise God!


:godisgood:

 

[Allan]

How/where did God specify exactly how or what type of testing was to be done? "See if (he) will not pour out a blessing..." .. there are a lot of wasy to do this, some more technical than others, but all should work if the principle is applicable to us.

No, there is one.

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].

There is only ONE test. Bring in "all" your tithes into the storehouse. "All" here is an interesting word especially since it refers not 'a' tithe but all the tithes. The one for the farmers and land owners who paid a tithe of their first fruits (to be given to the Levites for their support - Lev 27:30-33), the tithe of the Levites from the tithe given them in which 1/10 of it was given to the priests (Num 18:26-28), another tithe from all the people to be paid for the duties and services of the Levites and thier families (Duet 12:15-18), and another tithe every third year for the poor (Duet 14:28-29).

The Children of Israel AND the Levites were no longer (as whole) fulfilling their obligations before the Lord and the Lord accuses them of robbing or defrauding Him.

Look at Mal 2:2-9 for a better understanding of this cursing which was done and thus you will see the blessing transends and is more than just the physical.

I don't think so, but I say what I do because that is what so many preachers or 'testimony' givers say. I think they use the money angle less nowadays, perhaps because there have been many who have shown otherwise. But they still do, primarily, talk about how your needs [financial] will always be met if you faithfully tithe.

Some may have preached such but your guessing is far from anything accurate. People who study scripture know that the promise isn't just about barn full of food and that is way it isn't always about money.

Alright, what is it?-- if it is not a 'blessing' that an earthly structure can contain?

I think you need to study chapters 2 and 3 to understand more fully the curse and blessings promised.

To this, just give a reasonable reference.

During which time period because you can find it in most all of them. Anyone who even pretends to look into this can find hundreds of articles, sites, references almost anywhere on the web.

I suppose you should tell me. 20%? 50%? 100%? Indeed, if God will supply all our needs, why do we-- or you-- not quit your job and spend 40 or more hours a week witnessing the gospel? After all, he will provide all our needs, won't he? Either quit, or else give ALL our income to the church? Or do you just not trust him that much?

Do you have a problem with that?

As I stated in a previous post. We are to give two different ways in scripture.
1. In proportion to as God has prospered us. (a certain percentage)
2. As the Lord leads us to.

So in answer to your question we are to work and be stewards of His money He is giving us. However we are to give back proportionately of that, meaning we are not to quit our jobs and sit around. And yes, the other can mean as much as your whole paycheck - of which I have already stated I have done personally at differing times. Not saying that to get praise but to say it as a praise unto God who gave to me all I needed throughout those two weeks. Now don't get the promises of the offering confused with the promises of the tithe. God promises in the offering that what is given He will give back and then some. This refers primarily to money or whatever the object is that is given, but is not limited to such.

Likely enough. If they can tithe once, they can again.

Likely enough, if they tithed in faith and obedience they will continue tithing again.

Yeah, I've heard that. Like from the old lady who said her faithfulness in tithing was 'proved' by her having missed only 4 days of work in 14 years at the cotton mill. Too bad God couldn't also cover those 4 days she was sick, ain't it?

So you are the one who gets to dicate to God what is a blessing and how far it is to extend. Did it ever occur to you that due to her sickness she was kept from something that could have been a harm to her or maybe fatal? OR.. maybe it allowed her an opportunity to speak to someone words of hope or peace, or even speak to someone about Christ. Of course not.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Which means regardless of what scripture might say you're against it.

The fact remains that those who have so little (as you have set forth) and tithe, find they are not in the dire straights some fabricate.

I happen to be one of those who have a family of 5 living on $20,000 still tithe (on the gross) and I have need for nothing. In fact I own everything I have including 2 cars (one 1998 Plymoth Grand Voyager, and one 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee) while I Rent @$400 a month. Yes, we save and spend our money wisely but that of itself is not enough to explain where last year alone we were given by total strangers hundreds of dollars, or bills being paid by us even though we never sent in payment, ect.. Do I attribute all of this to tithing? No, but I do attribute all of this to being faithful which includes at the VERY least amount possible, tithing.

First of all. I was joking with the last sentence thus the smilewinkgrin: ). Your testimony is inspiring. Faithfulness is good. However, many may not have the blessing of strangers giving them money or family or anyone else. But as I've said your testimony does show God's faithfulness to those that are faithful. BTW Depending on where you live Rent may not be as low as $400. monthly.

 

[superwoman8977]

I am another who totally believes in tithing. One night I was reading in Malachi Chap 3 when I came across verse 8 where it talks about robbing God. I dont know why but that verse(s) hit me like a ton of bricks :tonofbricks: If I dont tithe I am robbing God? Immediately I changed everything so that 10% of every part of my income was given to God. It isnt all given to my church--I give a portion of my tithe to my hometown church, I give a portion to the church I attend now sand I also support several ministries around the world. I have noticed now that I have been tithing for a year that I have never run out of money, I have always been provided for no matter which issue crops up. In November my van needed a tranny and yeah me the worrywart was like where the heck am I going to come up with 1500.00....God had it all under control. My church helped me from the benevolent fund and I got an extra child support check and the balance I had in my savings account. God provides. I know on weeks that I dont tithe I struggle to get through it financially like big time so for me and my family we will always tithe. I am even teaching the kids to give 10% of their allowance and it doesnt have to be the church but it does have to be a ministry of their choice. My 10 yr old gives 5% to the offering at church and the other 5% to St. Jude Children's Hospital.

 

[Allan]

First of all. I was joking with the last sentence thus the smilewinkgrin: ).

Sorry about being abrupt, there are those on here that actaully do have that type of sentiment though.

Your testimony is inspiring. Faithfulness is good. However, many may not have the blessing of strangers giving them money or family or anyone else. But as I've said your testimony does show God's faithfulness to those that are faithful. BTW Depending on where you live Rent may not be as low as $400. monthly.

To be honest I have found my testimony to be all to common amoungst other tithers. It isn't something they were looking for and it almost never comes in any manner you/they would expect or assume. When I say common though it isn't that everytime a person turns around there is money lieing on the ground or in their pockets. But these kinds of testimony can be heard almost anywhere. Many however just do not share these blessing with others because they don't want to appear to be boastful or prideful. - I always tell them "how can you think it is prideful to declare the works of God in life. God SAYS to declare His blessings in the midst of the congregation and out amoung the Gentiles as well".

About the rent - Ain't that the truth

I live in South Dakota where the cost of living is somewhat lower in relation to certain aspects. Food is somewhat costly, but houses.. you can buy a decent 3 bedroom, full basement for about 65 to $80,000. Mostly because all the homes are over 60 years and remodeled though very livable and nice. But of course they are nothing like brand new homes. And I will state 'those' things are WAY up there.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Sorry about being abrupt, there are those on here that actaully do have that type of sentiment though.


To be honest I have found my testimony to be all to common amoungst other tithers. It isn't something they were looking for and it almost never comes in any manner you/they would expect or assume. When I say common though it isn't that everytime a person turns around there is money lieing on the ground or in their pockets. But these kinds of testimony can be heard almost anywhere. Many however just do not share these blessing with others because they don't to appear to be boastful or prideful. - I always tell them "how can you think it is prideful to declare the works of God in life. God SAYS to declare it in the midst of the congregation and out amoung the Gentiles as well".

About the rent - Ain't that the truth

I live in South Dakota where the cost of living is somewhat lower in relation to certain aspects. Food is somewhat costly, but houses.. you can buy a decent 3 bedroom, full basement for about 55 to $70,000. Mostly because all the homes are over 60 years and remodeled though very livable and nice. But of course they are nothing like brand new homes.

If I didn't know about South Dakota (in the AF we said why not Minnot? Freezing the reason!) I'd think about moving out there. But I guess salaries are also adjusted for Cost of Living expenses.

 

[ktn4eg]

The tithe (10% of ALL of your sources of income--not just what your pay check stub indicates!) is a good, general guide of where your monetary giving ought to begin--but I'd say that should just be your minimum.

How much beyond that ought to be between you and the Lord---Remembering the fact that our Lord gave ALL that He had for us!

Moreover, giving isn't just concerned with money either! It includes all of the rest that you are as well. How that works out as an individual and/or family unit again ought to be between you (singular and/or plural) and the Lord.

And, your "giving" ought to be such that it's done willingly, joyfully & consistently.
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On a side note, there are some who believe that nobody else but God Himself needs know how much and for what particular purpose(s) your giving is done.

As a concept, I won't disagree with that notion, but as an American realist I'd rather have my giving documented so that I can take those amouints off of my income tax. Elsewise, you'll be taxed at a higher income level if you don't take it off your income tax.

Given the government's track record of how it spends what I'm required to give to it (at all levels: local, state & federal), I'd say that I believe I can do a little better job of deciding how much and for what purpose(s) my money (Actually it's God's money that He allows you to have!) than the bureaucrats and politicians will do.

 

[Spinach]

I was talking with dh about this subject the other night. He said that in this day our responsibility is much greater than a 10% tithe. There are so many people to reach. There are so many people to feed. The needs are so great.

The early church gave all. When the tabernacle was being built, people brought too much. Both those examples are a giving from the heart that was out of love, true love!

 

[Tom Butler]

Saturneptune,



They will answer to God one day for that evil.

But the obvious implication of that is that the pastor obviously requires all potential *members* to give him that information.

It is at THAT point that I would fly out of that pastors office so fast he would think the rapture has occured and he got left out.

I once heard a missionary to a South American country relate that the Baptist church where he served posted the giving of each member on the wall of the sanctuary. Nobody left with their nose out of joint. The members thought it was the normal thing.

 

[Alcott]

"How/where did God specify exactly how or what type of testing was to be done? "See if (he) will not pour out a blessing..." .. there are a lot of wasy to do this, some more technical than others, but all should work if the principle is applicable to us."

No, there is one.
..............
People who study scripture know that the promise isn't just about barn full of food and that is way it isn't always about money.

Alright, now how many ways are there?

 

[John Toppass]

I hate to jump in at such a late date but I am going too. I believe that the tithe is a minimum giving back to God for the all that he has provided you. Some give the tithe entirely to the church, others divide parts to ministries. Some test God to see if they are better off tithing or not or giving more than a tithe. God did say to test him but he meant to be aware of his blessings. When you test just to see if you get something for you, it seems your one of those "it's all about me" people. I do not know of anyone who cheerfully gave to God, who ever regretted give God back just a little of the whole lot he has given to us.
IMHO

 

[Jim1999]

The minimum giving to the LOCAL church is the tithe and then the offerings. If one must sacrifice his/her family in order to tithe, I suggest they keep the tithe and care for their family..then the offerings become the important aspect of giving.

Most of my life I have help support a missionary in Africa. I send the monies and gifts directly to that missionary and the monies have nothing to do with my tithe or offerings.

To each as he is able. I keep thinking of the laddie in England who didn't receive his allowance. That week he had the offering plate put on the floor. "I don't have farthing, but I give wot I 'ave, meself." As he stepped into the plate.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Alcott]

Some test God to see if they are better off tithing or not or giving more than a tithe. God did say to test him but he meant to be aware of his blessings. When you test just to see if you get something for you, it seems your one of those "it's all about me" people.

So, if you give a tithe, or a double or triple tithe, then you get a broken leg, you consider yourself greatly blessed that you didn't break both legs? That would be a real test, wouldn't it? Well, just be glad you tithed, or maybe He'd have broken every bone in your body!

 

[John Toppass]

So, if you give a tithe, or a double or triple tithe, then you get a broken leg, you consider yourself greatly blessed that you didn't break both legs? That would be a real test, wouldn't it? Well, just be glad you tithed, or maybe He'd have broken every bone in your body!

First of all I do not think that it would be God who broke my leg.
Second and most important, I believe that any seemingly misfortune that does come to me will put me in a new relationship with someone who is seeking Christ. If only I am to plant the seed, that God's grace is eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, His son.

I can assure you this, if you can see past the mirror and start to love your neighbor, (and I admit that I did not have much love for my neighbor until i learned to use the love that God has for me) you might try to find an amount that you can give back to the Lord, cheerfully. You will find an increase of blessings, no matter your circumstance. Then you will understand and maybe just maybe, you will see the foolishness in the thread of thought that you had about tithing.

 

[Jim1999]

I tithe not for recognition or for blessings. I tithe because I believe it pleases the Lord. I don't record it with my local church either or ask for receipts for tax purposes. The Lord knows and that is all that matters to me.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[John Toppass]

Bro. Jim,

I agree with you on what counts. I do take the tax deduction and then give the amount returned due to the deduction as an offering to support different ministeries. So far we have never need the return for ourselves!

 

[Alcott]

I tithe not for recognition or for blessings. I tithe because I believe it pleases the Lord. I don't record it with my local church either or ask for receipts for tax purposes. The Lord knows and that is all that matters to me.

Would it not "please the Lord" if you did take any tax deduction to which you are entitled and that give that portion 'to him' also?

 

[Jim1999]

The church treasurer is the only one who needs to know for her records, and should anyone challenge my giving as unto the Lord.

I don't need the tax return and I give adequately above and beyond that.

The point is the deduction doesn't affect my tax return anyway. I still have to pay taxes.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[HankD]

This thread about the tithe comes up quite a bit here at the BB.

Yet precious few quote the NT Scripture principle of giving.

2 Corinthians 9

6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.​

Nowhere is the tithe required of the children of God in the NT.​

However that does not mean you shouldn't or that you can't tithe or more.​

God will bless you in His measure of proportion but there are conditions:​

As you "purpose in your heart".
Not "grudgingly".
Not out of an obligation.​

RE: Malachi Chapter 3:​

This is a message to the Levites. They were not bringing all the tithes (plural) into the temple storehouse (agricultural produce from the land).​

They were robbing God. The tithe was the federal income tax of Israel (a theocracy) and was to be used by the government workers (Levites) as their pay (Guildelines are in the OT, like meat from the sacrifices). Other tithes and offerings were used to purchase and make armaments, support widows, orphans, the poor, etc...​

In addition the wage earner was not required to tithe, only the landowner and only from the increase of the produce yielded by the landowner in like kind (cattle, crops). In some cases it could be turned into cash (gold, silver and given to a the local priesthood) but ideally brought to the Temple.​

The government takes its "tithe" or more from you without asking.​

Those things called "FICA" and "Federal withholding" and "State Tax" are used in the same manner as the tithe collected from the citizens of Israel under the law (except it is taken from the wage earner).​

If you are going to put yourself under one point of the law as obligatory where does it stop?​

Giving (as all that we do) should be by faith because without faith it is impossible to please God and that which is not of faith is sin.​

But to repeat: That doesn't mean the children of God shoudn't or can't tithe, just that they are not under any obligation to do so.

The just shall live by faith.​

HankD​