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To Be or Not to Be Blotted Out of God’s Book
- Thread starter Heavenly Pilgrim
- Start date
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Steaver, as you agree with Hamel maybe you can help out with the questions I asked concerning the remarks made by Hamel.
So the Book of Life is just a rooster of all human beings? Do sinners cease to be human beings when they sin? I thought (according to all that believe in original sin) they were all born that way. If they were all in the book to start with, how can their names be written down once they become saved???
So the Book of Life is just a rooster of all human beings? Do sinners cease to be human beings when they sin? I thought (according to all that believe in original sin) they were all born that way. If they were all in the book to start with, how can their names be written down once they become saved???
Yes, I believe it is.
Act 17:28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
No.
Yes, all are born sinners. (Romans 5)
They do not get written down, they get blotted out if they are found to have lived "ignorantly in unbelief" at the final judgment.
:jesus:
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1523908#post1523908
Steaver, as you agree with Hamel maybe you can help out with the questions I asked concerning the remarks made by Hamel.
So the Book of Life is just a rooster of all human beings?
HP: Php 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Re 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Here, I believe, is every direct mention of the 'book of life.' Which one supports the notion that it is a rooster of every human being??? I find believers, overcomers, and only those not cast into the lake of fire written down. Scripture clearly state that “he that hath the Son hath life, he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” You are suggesting that all have life and are written down at one point in time. I see absolutely no Scriptural evidence in the least to support such a notion.
Originally Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1523908#post1523908
Steaver, as you agree with Hamel maybe you can help out with the questions I asked concerning the remarks made by Hamel.
So the Book of Life is just a rooster of all human beings?
HP: Php 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Re 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Here, I believe, is every direct mention of the 'book of life.' Which one supports the notion that it is a rooster of every human being??? I find believers, overcomers, and only those not cast into the lake of fire written down. Scripture clearly state that “he that hath the Son hath life, he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” You are suggesting that all have life and are written down at one point in time. I see absolutely no Scriptural evidence in the least to support such a notion.
Actually, that would be a ROSTER, not a ROOSTER.
Sorry, that was too funny to pass by. :smilewinkgrin:
Actually, that would be a ROSTER, not a ROOSTER.
Sorry, that was too funny to pass by. :smilewinkgrin:
I was going to make a little fun about the extra o, but I make too many spelling erros myself so I abstained. It is a comical error though. I am sure brother HP does not mind a bit of funnin.
:jesus:
Oh, I do it too. But this one cracked me up! No offense meant to HP.
You might have a point brother. I am not married to this idea of all being in the book of life and then blotted out afterward.
Maybe you could elaborate on how your pov of this plays out in people's lives.
First I would ask, why does it say that all written in the Lambs book of life have already been written there before they ever actually existed? (Rev 17:8)
Second question would relate to the possible answer of the first, which is how does one get written in teh Lamb's book of life if they have not already been written there prior to existing?
:jesus:
It is a good one :thumbs:
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
I went to public school, and we were far above learning phonics at that time. :tonofbricks:
I wish I could say it was a typo, but my spelling is horrendous. Once it is pointed out in graphic detail as Amy has done, ........I most likely will remember it for a while.:thumbs:
I wish I could say it was a typo, but my spelling is horrendous. Once it is pointed out in graphic detail as Amy has done, ........I most likely will remember it for a while.:thumbs:
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Just so you all know, I am not going to be able to post for a while. I have seemingly came down with a slightly nasty case of bird influenza, better known as rooster itis. :smilewinkgrin: (or it it roster itis????)
Seroiusly, I have been told to get some other work done....NOW! See you all a little later. :wavey:
Seroiusly, I have been told to get some other work done....NOW! See you all a little later. :wavey:
Originally Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim
Steaver, as you agree with Hamel maybe you can help out with the questions I asked concerning the remarks made by Hamel.
So the Book of Life is just a rooster of all human beings?
HP: Php 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Re 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Here, I believe, is every direct mention of the 'book of life.' Which one supports the notion that it is a rooster of every human being??? I find believers, overcomers, and only those not cast into the lake of fire written down. Scripture clearly state that “he that hath the Son hath life, he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” You are suggesting that all have life and are written down at one point in time. I see absolutely no Scriptural evidence in the least to support such a notion.
You might have a point brother. I am not married to this idea of all being in the book of life and then blotted out afterward.
Maybe you could elaborate on how your pov of this plays out in people's lives.
First I would ask, why does it say that all written in the Lambs book of life have already been written there before they ever actually existed? (Rev 17:8)
Second question would relate to the possible answer of the first, which is how does one get written in teh Lamb's book of life if they have not already been written there prior to existing?
Hi H.P.,
You are right, you are wrong (being facetious, my friend).
It isn't that we believe we are "positionally free from sin."
It is this: We are "positionally free from the penalty of sin."
Big difference.
What you imply is that we believe we have license to sin...no born-again believer holds to this position, it is impossible to think that way by virtue of the indwelling of Christ.
Yet you repeatedly make this accusation, because it is critical to your theology.
We are being conformed to the Image of Christ, not automatically changed into sinless men and women.
It is work, and we do so with fear and trembling.
If being sinless were automatic, then Paul (and John) would not have spoken of differing levels of maturity in Christ.
Concerning the Book of Life, I agree with Steaver (though I have not read every post).
At the great white throne judgement, those who are unbelievers will be blooted out (because they are in there).
In Psalm 69-
18Draw nigh unto my soul, and redeem it: deliver me because of mine enemies.
19Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour: mine adversaries are all before thee.
20Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.
21They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
22Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.
23Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.
24Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.
25Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.
26For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
27Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.
28Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous
It is David's (and Christ's, prophetically speaking) enemies who are blotted out.
Anyway, I know you will not be convinced, but this is an interesting study.
Hope all is well with you and yours, and look forward to your return.
God bless.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: If you are free from the penalty of sin, sin has no hold over you period.
HP: Hardly a day goes by when we are not reminded that “all sin” has been forgiven he believer, past, present, and future, and if that is not a license to sin the Pope is not a Catholic. Sin and its penalty would have about as much effect on one as changing the temperature of the North pole one degree has on the water temperature of well water in South America.
HP: Untrue positions have absolutely no effect on my personal theology, for the world is full of them, and this ‘positional’ business is no exception.
HP: If you have not been cleansed from all sin at the time of ones salvation, such a one is still in their sins. The blood of Christ cleanseth the soul from all sins that are past, or we are not born again. Once again, your arguments and remarks simply parrot and or parallel the false notion of Calvinism’s literal atonement theory.
No one has stated or implied that 'subsequent to' salvation all will remain sinless. The issue is that when one sins subsequent to salvation can one hold a firm assurance of salvation in one hand and sins not repented of in the other? Can one be in a state of loving God while serving the flesh? Is one righteous that is not doing righteousness? Can one say that he loves God and not be keeping His moral commandments? Scripture I believe Scripture presents a resounding ‘No’ to every one of these questions.
HP: As I read Steaver his views are still under consideration on this issue, or so it would appear to me.
One thing I am certain of, if one has never had a certain hope of eternal life their names could never have been written down in the Lamb’s book of life. In order to have ones names written down and then blotted out would have to have the position in Christ they once held, revoked. The notion that unbelievers have their names in the book of life is nowhere presented as truth in Scripture.
Revelation 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I am sure that the only ones present here will be the unsaved. The judgment of the saved already took place a thousand years earlier at the judgment seat of Christ. The first six verses also verify the same thing.
Revelation 20:5-6 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
--The first resurrection already took place a thousand year previous to this. It was the resurrection of the righteous. They have already been judged (not for their salvation), but for their works that they have laid up in store for treasure in heaven. Read 1Cor. 3:11-15.
Rev.20:10-15 speak of the unsaved only, as verse 10 starts the scene with the devil, the beast and the false prophet--certainly not typical of one of your righteous believers.
What happens in verse 20 will surely happen in verse 15. It is a foregone conclusion that all the unsaved will not have their names written in the book of life. Notice it doesn't say "they will be removed." It says "they are not found." They were never written there in the first place. Before the foundation of the world God knew those who would reject him. They were never written in the Book of Life. They were not found there. This is the final sentence before they are cast into the Lake of Fire. They already know their fate.
It is not unlike Paul's situation. He already knew his situation. He was condemned to death. At his first appearing no man stood with him. But this time he knew he would face certain death. There would be no pardon. Appearing before Caesar was just a formality. He would receive an "official" sentence, and then be beheaded. He knew what his fate was.
The same is here. The unsaved know what their fate is. This is their official sentence. It is the last time they will appear before the Lord God Almighty. Now they will be cast into the Lake of Fire and, as it says in verse 10, be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Knowing that, it should make us the most powerful evangelists on earth.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: How can you be so certain you will not be there? “The dead small and great” is a mighty all-inclusive statement for you to imagine it exempts you or anyone else I would think.
I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that I won't be there.
I have perfect peace about that fact.
The dead refers to spiritually dead, those that are separated from God for all eternity. Whether small (insignificant) or great (prominent) in this world, it won't make a difference when they stand before God. All are equal. All will not have their names found in the Book of Life.
I know my name is written in the Book of Life. It will always be there. It cannot be removed.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: I am certain deception in many varieties brings about a tranquil feeling resembling peace for at least a season,…….. but such peace will not trump ones attendance to the inevitable judgment God says all will attend.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
"and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their works. "
Note carfully that there are TWO books open, not just one, and all those NOT found in the book of Life are cast into the lake of fire.
Note carfully that there are TWO books open, not just one, and all those NOT found in the book of Life are cast into the lake of fire.