To Be or Not to Be Blotted Out of God’s Book

[DHK]

HP: I am certain deception in many varieties brings about a tranquil feeling resembling peace for at least a season,…….. but such peace will not trump ones attendance to the inevitable judgment God says all will attend.

I am not deceived. Neither is Word of God false or His promises written in vain.

 

[DHK]

"and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their works. "

Note carfully that there are TWO books open, not just one, and all those NOT found in the book of Life are cast into the lake of fire.

And all whose names were not found in the Book of Life were cast into the Lake of Fire.
I would concentrate of the Book of Life if I were you.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Let's both give diligence to make our calling an election sure and to be found in that book of Life in the last day. IF we do those things, neither of us will fall. :thumbs:
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

It is certainly not 'ALL' of God, and will require some effort expended on our part to get there and remain being found in the book of Life.

 

[DHK]

Let's both give diligence to make our calling an election sure and to be found in that book of Life in the last day. IF we do those things, neither of us will fall. :thumbs:
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

It is certainly not 'ALL' of God, and will require some effort expended on our part to get there and remain being found in the book of Life.

Here is what Jamieson, Faucett and Brown say on that verse:

your calling and election sure--by ministering additionally in your faith virtue, and in your virtue knowledge, &c. God must work all these graces in us, yet not so that we should be mere machines, but willing instruments in His hands in making His election of us "secure." The ensuring of our election is spoken of not in respect to God, whose counsel is steadfast and everlasting, but in respect to our part. There is no uncertainty on His part, but on ours the only security is our faith in His promise and the fruits of the Spirit (2Pe 1:5-7,11). Peter subjoins election to calling, because the calling is the effect and proof of God's election, which goes before and is the main thing (Ro 8:28,30,33, where God's "elect" are those "predestinated," and election is "His purpose," according to which He "called" them).
We know His calling before His election, thereby calling is put first.
fall--Greek, "stumble" and fall finally (Ro 11:11). Metaphor from one stumbling in a race (1Co 9:24).

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Just curious, but were Jamieson, Faucett and Brown Calvinists by any chance?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Jamieson, Faucett and Brown “ There is no uncertainty on His part, but on ours the only security is our faith in His promise and the fruits of the Spirit”

HP: That is a very interesting comment. Here the commentators place the security of our faith on ‘two’ essentials: First faith and then ‘the fruits of the Spirit.’

My question would be, If one is NOT exhibiting the fruits of the Spirit (such as would be the case if one was sinning every day in thought word and deed) can one have a trustworthy security based on ones ‘faith alone’ according to these commentators?

There is a Scripture that keeps reoccurring in my mind found in James. Does it come to your mind as well?

 

[DHK]

Just curious, but were Jamieson, Faucett and Brown Calvinists by any chance?

Yes, along with Spurgeon, Albert Barnes, and most other commentaries of that era.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Yes, along with Spurgeon, Albert Barnes, and most other commentaries of that era.

HP: What I cannot understand for the life of me is why would one so sensitive about any association or even comparison to such heresy (that is what you call Calvinism is it not?) be using their statements as evidence of the truth of Scripture?

 

[DHK]

HP: What I cannot understand for the life of me is why would one so sensitive about any association or even comparison to such heresy (that is what you call Calvinism is it not?) be using their statements as evidence of the truth of Scripture?

You would be wise not to call the Calvinists on this board heretics, or even their beliefs heresy.
You have never been able to answer the question yourself--for as many times the Bible mentions: "election" "elect" "predestined" "chosen before the foundation of the world," etc. how do you account for such phrases, passages. You give a blanket denial of the doctrine of election, but fail to explain the many passages that deal with election. I have never seen you take up the gauntlet, arise to the challenge, have the courage, to exegete these passages and come forth a Biblical view of election. To sit there and deny it is not an option.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: You would be wise not to call the Calvinists on this board heretics, or even their beliefs heresy.

HP: I have never and would not. Read what I said again. It is you that becomes totally offended with even being compared in any sense whatsoever to Calvinistic notions. Have you not in the past spoken in most disparaging terms against that system of necessity, even to the point as labeling some of the ends of that system of theology as heretical?

DHK: You have never been able to answer the question yourself--for as many times the Bible mentions: "election" "elect" "predestined" "chosen before the foundation of the world," etc. how do you account for such phrases, passages.

HP: I beg your pardon. I have most certainly have spoke to those notions in times past. What you seem to fail to realize is that one can say those exact words without ever defining them as do Calvinists or those leaning hard in that direction.

DHK: You give a blanket denial of the doctrine of election, but fail to explain the many passages that deal with election.

HP: Yet another false allegation. The blanket denial of election I have stood opposed to is only when it is placed within stricktly Calvinistic parameters.

DHK: I have never seen you take up the gauntlet, arise to the challenge, have the courage, to exegete these passages and come forth a Biblical view of election. To sit there and deny it is not an option.

HP: I would be happy to oblige as time permits. In the meantime, why not answer directly some of the issues I have raised on this thread? You bypassed my questions in both posts #46 and #48. Could I reasonably expect you to answer any issues on election directly if you will not be direct in answering my questions here??

 

[steaver]

HP: Could I reasonably expect you to answer any issues on election directly if you will not be direct in answering my questions here??

My, my, my. HP complaining about not receiving direct answers to his questions.

Oh boy!

:jesus:

 

[steaver]

You might have a point brother. I am not married to this idea of all being in the book of life and then blotted out afterward.

Maybe you could elaborate on how your pov of this plays out in people's lives.

First I would ask, why does it say that all written in the Lambs book of life have already been written there before they ever actually existed? (Rev 17:8)

Second question would relate to the possible answer of the first, which is how does one get written in the Lamb's book of life if they have not already been written there prior to existing?

God bless!

:godisgood:

 

[Darrell C]

hi Heavenly Pilgrim,

Trying to catch up but won't get very far tonight.

Tried to quote, but it didn't when I logged in.

So, off the cuff.

Consider this: Psalm 69, a psalm of David and Messianic in nature:

26For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.

27Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.

28Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.


I would recommend a review of this, as you seek to understand the book of life.

You say there are two books in Revelation 20-

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books (plural)were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Though it is not said what books are referenced, I would offer two suggestions:

1-The written word of God, by which it is reasonable that they will be judged from. At this point, they are judged, whereas Christians have already been judged, and there remains no condemnation for them.

As there will be for these.

2-Among these books we may find the book of remembrance, if this isn't the book of life itself:

Malachi 3:16 (King James Version)

16Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

Just a few thoughts to ponder.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

HP: That is a very interesting comment. Here the commentators place the security of our faith on ‘two’ essentials: First faith and then ‘the fruits of the Spirit.’

My question would be, If one is NOT exhibiting the fruits of the Spirit (such as would be the case if one was sinning every day in thought word and deed) can one have a trustworthy security based on ones ‘faith alone’ according to these commentators?

There is a Scripture that keeps reoccurring in my mind found in James. Does it come to your mind as well?

You are right...fruit is the evidence of salvation.

Without it, one should question their salvation.

But it is the evidence, not the means.

 

[Darrell C]

hi Heavenly Pilgrim,

Psalm 139-

13For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Yet another good verse for life before birth (as well as whether David thought life began at conception).

Let that be a spoonful of dust for the pro-abortionist.

 

[Darrell C]

hi Heavenly Pilgrim,

An interesting thing about this topic is the book of the living: is this the book of life?

A question to be answered.

What would you say, H.P.?

 

[steaver]

An interesting thing about this topic is the book of the living: is this the book of life?

A question to be answered.

What would you say, H.P.?

What is interesting about this thread is that HP started it and HP has abandoned it. Come on HP, it is your thread, keep up with it!

:jesus:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Darrell: fruit is the evidence of salvation.
Without it, one should question their salvation.
But it is the evidence, not the means.

HP: My POV would be that they should not 'necessarily' question whether or not they once were saved, but rather if in fact have they turned from God since they first came to faith. The question in my opinion should not be ‘have I lost my salvation’ nor should it be to deny what God has done for me in the past, but rather the question should be, will I enter heaven on the path I am on in light of the present state of my conscience.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Darrell: An interesting thing about this topic is the book of the living: is this the book of life?

HP: I would believe the book of life and the book of living are both one in the same.

 

[steaver]

You might have a point brother. I am not married to this idea of all being in the book of life and then blotted out afterward.

Maybe you could elaborate on how your pov of this plays out in people's lives.

First I would ask, why does it say that all written in the Lambs book of life have already been written there before they ever actually existed? (Rev 17:8)

Second question would relate to the possible answer of the first, which is how does one get written in the Lamb's book of life if they have not already been written there prior to existing?

:jesus: