To Keep Schumer Happy

[thatbrian]

So, deporting a person to a country he has never lived in, with a culture he does not understand, that speaks a language he does not understand, and in which he has no marketable skill set, and will probably be murdered or starve to death as the result, is your idea of "justice."

Have you no mercy? Have you no compassion? Have you no grace in your heart for these modern day stateless nomads?

Let me ask you, if they were all 5 Point Calvinists would you allow them to stay?

Have you no desire for rule of law? Is anarchy what you are after?

Put them on buses back to where their lawbreaking parents came from, and do it immediately. If they are fortunate enough to be Calvinists then they will plant churches in their father's homeland. That would be a win win situation.

 

[thatbrian]

The Dreamers are not violating any laws. That is one of the requirements of the Dream Act. Being in this country without authorization is not a crime. It is ENTERING this country without authorization which is a crime. And the children did not commit that crime. There were too young and thus no Mens Rea, no crime.

Not committing the crime but wanting the booty. That sounds just.

 

[TCassidy]

Have you no desire for rule of law?

I have lived my whole life under and supporting the rule of law. But not to the detriment of other, innocent, law abiding people.

Is anarchy what you are after?

Now you are just displaying your utter desperation. I was, for many years, an officer of the law. And after retiring from that position I became an officer of the court. I stand for, and will die for, the rule of law. But I won't slaughter innocents to accomplish it.

Put them on buses back to where their lawbreaking parents came from, and do it immediately.

How about we put you on a bus back to where your lawbreaking parents came from. Would that be justice?

 

[TCassidy]

Not committing the crime but wanting the booty. That sounds just.

Then you have suffered an enormous failure to understand the issue.

 

[thatbrian]

I have lived my whole life under and supporting the rule of law. But not to the detriment of other, innocent, law abiding people.

Now you are just displaying your utter desperation. I was, for many years, an officer of the law. And after retiring from that position I became an officer of the court. I stand for, and will die for, the rule of law. But I won't slaughter innocents to accomplish it.

How about we put you on a bus back to where your lawbreaking parents came from. Would that be justice?

If there were a Conservative mod here, I would report your post.

 

[thatbrian]

Then you have suffered an enormous failure to understand the issue.

My drunk of a father spent my inheritance on booze, and I have spent my life preparing an inheritance for my loved ones. I understand the issue very well. From both sides.

God designed this. No man is an island. What a father does has an impact, for better or worse, on his children.

These children should not blame Trump or me for their plight. They should blame their fathers and mothers. The criminals who got them into this situation by their actions.

 

[TCassidy]

If there were a Conservative mod here, I would report your post.

Report away. You will find that all of the Moderators and Administrators on this forum are Conservatives. And what part of my entirely truthful post do you object to?

 

[TCassidy]

My drunk of a father spent my inheritance on booze, and I have spent my life preparing an inheritance for my loved ones. I understand the issue very well. From both sides.

God designed this. No man is an island. What a father does has an impact, for better or worse, on his children.

These children should not blame Trump or me for their plight. They should blame their fathers and mothers.

So, you are mad at your father so you take it out on disadvantaged kids? And you want a better life for your kids but you want to deny it to the children of others?

Instead of fixing the blame, why not concentrate on fixing the problem?

Fixing the blame is the reaction of a small mind. Fixing the problem is the response of a leader.

(By the way, President Trump is pro-DACA, with some corrections mosting regarding chain immigration, etc.)

 

[thatbrian]

So, you are mad at your father so you take it out on disadvantaged kids? And you want a better life for your kids but you want to deny it to the children of others?

Instead of fixing the blame, why not concentrate on fixing the problem?

Fixing the blame is the reaction of a small mind. Fixing the problem is the response of a leader.

(By the way, President Trump is pro-DACA, with some corrections mosting regarding chain immigration, etc.)

If my father broke into the upper east side penthouse of snowbirds and my mother gave birth to me while there, would that give me the right to live in that apartment? Would they say that I had never known life without a doorman?

Would anyone cry over that fact that I had not known anything but the upper east side and the south Bronx food would be bad for my digestion?

You don't want justice. You want anarchy. Your plan incentivizes illegals.

 

[thatbrian]

So, you are mad at your father so you take it out on disadvantaged kids? And you want a better life for your kids but you want to deny it to the children of others?

Instead of fixing the blame, why not concentrate on fixing the problem?

Fixing the blame is the reaction of a small mind. Fixing the problem is the response of a leader.

(By the way, President Trump is pro-DACA, with some corrections mosting regarding chain immigration, etc.)

When the insults fly it's a sure sign there are no true arguments for one's position. . .

Fixing the problem is enforcing the law. Deportation for ALL people here illegally AND their goats and offspring is the solution.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Teeing off what TCassidy wrote above. The factors in this situation are:

• Mens Rea
  • As I understand Mens Rea under Federal Law
    • The persons subject to DACA were too young to have formed Mens Rea when they entered the country. They were just doing what Mommy and Daddy told them to do. In many cases, it was hard to form Mens Rea when you're in diapers.
• The fact that mere unauthorized presence in the US is not a crime the key to this situation. Unauthorized entry is the crime. Presence is a civil matter. The two should not be confused.

 

[thatbrian]

Teeing off what TCassidy wrote above. The factors in this situation are:

• Mens Rea
  • As I understand Mens Rea under Federal Law
    • The persons subject to DACA were too young to have formed Mens Rea when they entered the country. They were just doing what Mommy and Daddy told them to do. In many cases, it was hard to form Mens Rea when you're in diapers.
• The fact that mere unauthorized presence in the US is not a crime the key to this situation. Unauthorized entry is the crime. Presence is a civil matter. The two should not be confused.

No man is an island. His actions, good or bad, are "handed down" to his children. Men should in no way gain from breaking the law. Rewarding criminal activity in any way is unjust and will lead to further crime.

 

[Jerome]

No man is an island. His actions, good or bad, are "handed down" to his children.

Deut 24:14-18
"Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns. Pay him his wages each day before sunset, because he is poor and is counting on it. Otherwise he may cry to the LORD against you, and you will be guilty of sin. Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. Do not deprive the alien or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you from there. That is why I command you to do this."

 

[Squire Robertsson]

However, visiting "justice" on the offspring of criminals has never been a part of the American legal system. As noted in the post above, the principle is a Biblical one. Please note verse 16:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
​

No man is an island. His actions, good or bad, are "handed down" to his children. Men should in no way gain from breaking the law. Rewarding criminal activity in any way is unjust and will lead to further crime.

 

[thatbrian]

Deut 24:14-18
"Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns. Pay him his wages each day before sunset, because he is poor and is counting on it. Otherwise he may cry to the LORD against you, and you will be guilty of sin. Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. Do not deprive the alien or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you from there. That is why I command you to do this."

I don't want to execute them, just give them free transportation back to their motherland.

 

[thatbrian]

However, visiting "justice" on the offspring of criminals has never been a part of the American legal system.

Of course not. Actions have consequences, though.

Firstly, why do we assume that life in this country is not a penalty for these children? They have been deprived live in their ancestral land, so we should restore them to it, and do so ASAP.

Deportation is not punishment for a crime they didn't commit. It's the consequence of illegal activity, though. Just as the consequence of a bank robber is that his children are left without a father's direct presence.

 

[thatbrian]

The only way we restore justice and discourage disregard for our borders is to depart all of the people who are here illegally, along with their goats, rabbits, dogs, cats, and children.

The wheels on the deportation buses go round and round, round and round, and they keep rolling until they hit Costa Rica, Guatemala, Mexico, Brazil. . . (we might need some boats too)

God ordains governments and borders. We disobey Him when we fail to uphold laws regarding these things.

 

[Jerome]

His actions, good or bad, are "handed down" to his children.

That's the sort of thinking that underlay the Puritans' 'halfway covenant' scheme, maintaining church privileges for unconverted offspring!

 

[thatbrian]

That's the sort of thinking that underlay the Puritans' 'halfway covenant' scheme, maintaining church privileges for unconverted offspring!

That sounds a lot like rewarding children with citizenship for their parent's illegal entry into my country.

We all live with the consequences of our parent's actions.

 

[church mouse guy]

Some say the 1964 Teddy Kennedy immigration act was to flood the workplace with cheap labor and thus waterdown the 1964 civil rights act. It has worked that way, hasn't it?

We are talking about 3.6 million people. Compassion says they stay.

Open borders for more cheap labor and more Democrat voters has made the left say, give me your jihadists, your cartel members, your habitual criminals, and your fifth columnists...