To the Catholics visiting the Baptist forum.

[Particular]

Assume I don't for the sake of this discussion.

What state controlled the Church of Rome?

??? The Roman Empire. Ultimately, the Bishop of Rome takes on the Latin word for Roman leader, Pontifex Maximus. It is the same word the Ceasars used.
So, yeah, State Controlled Church of Rome is perfect.

 

[Adonia]

3000 converts on opening day! Booyah!!! [emoji41]

Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

I refer you to my earlier post, #84. If anything, they were now members of the One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church.

 

[Walpole]

??? The Roman Empire. Ultimately, the Bishop of Rome takes on the Latin word for Roman leader, Pontifex Maximus. It is the same word the Ceasars used.
So, yeah, State Controlled Church of Rome is perfect.

If the state controlled the Church of Rome, who was the Pope? Why didn’t the emperor just sit on Peter’s chair?

Once you answer that, we’ll discuss how Constantinople figures into your assertion.

 

[Particular]

I refer you to my earlier post, #84. If anything, they were now members of the One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church.

LOL, they were members of "The Way" church. A clearly Baptist fellowship where only believers baptism was done. That fellowship went on until the Roman Empire declared the Church at Rome to be all-powerful and started persecuting all believers who did not submit under the State Controlled Church. Even the bishop of Rome takes on the same name as the Ceasars...Pontifex Maximus. From there we see a 1000 year reign of terror in Western Europe. It is not surprising that the Baptists were calling for separation of church and state after all that abuse perpetrated by the State Controlled Church of Rome.

 

[Particular]

If the state controlled the Church of Rome, who was the Pope? Why didn’t the emperor just sit on Peter’s chair?

Once you answer that, we’ll discuss how Constantinople figures into your assertion.

The Pope became the Pontifex Maximus then changed the name to the Holy Roman Empire.
Be a student and see the power mongering of the Popes over the centuries. Those Medici's were something special.

 

[MarysSon]

So, if I say "A", your challenge is for me to show you where something says "B"?

Seems kind of disingenuous to me. But then, given your previous posts and your disregard for the truth, it doesn't surprise me.

No - @Adonia stated:
"All I can say is this, the Catholic Church preaches Christ crucified, that through His death and resurrection (which is the focus of our worship service by the way) we have salvation."

YOU, then made the following claim:
"Then, according to the Council of Trent, you're anathema. And, according to anyone who knows Catholicism, you have no clue what you're talking about."

I am simply holding you accountable for your claim.
Soooooo - where's the proof??

SNIP

 

[MarysSon]

The Pope became the Pontifex Maximus then changed the name to the Holy Roman Empire.
Be a student and see the power mongering of the Popes over the centuries. Those Medici's were something special.

The Pope was referred to as "Pontifex Maximus", which simply means "Greatest Bridge Builder" - as fa back as the early 3rd century - while the persecution of the Church was STILL going on.

Study your history . . .

 

[Particular]

The Pope was referred to as "Pontifex Maximus", which simply means "Greatest Bridge Builder" - as fa back as the early 3rd century - while the persecution of the Church was STILL going on.

Study your history . . .

The Via Labicana Augustus is a sculpture of the Roman emperor Augustus as Pontifex Maximus.
The Roman Emperor's went by that title.
Wake up and smell the State power take over of the church at Rome. Then study history, because the church at Rome is the least Christian exhibit over the past 2000 years that you can find in the world of Christendom. Such evil and power mongering is only equaled by power hungry nations.
Why would you ever try to defend its evil actions?

 

[Hollow Man]

Sure - that's why I just proved you wrong on every point . . .

No - @Adonia stated:
"All I can say is this, the Catholic Church preaches Christ crucified, that through His death and resurrection (which is the focus of our worship service by the way) we have salvation."

YOU, then made the following claim:
"Then, according to the Council of Trent, you're anathema. And, according to anyone who knows Catholicism, you have no clue what you're talking about."

I am simply holding you accountable for your claim.
Soooooo - where's the proof??

Here's one:

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

Here's another:

"If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

And then, there's this gem:

Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."


There are more, but that's more than enough to show that Catholicism condemns anyone who believes we're saved by Christ's death and resurrection without works on our part.

Here's a little advice:
Don't make dishonest claims that you can't back up. Somebody will always expose you for it . . .

I did back them up but quoting scripture and your own cult's sources.

 

[Walpole]

The Pope became the Pontifex Maximus then changed the name to the Holy Roman Empire.
Be a student and see the power mongering of the Popes over the centuries. Those Medici's were something special.

If the state controlled the Church of Rome, why was there even a pope to begin with? Wouldnt the Emperor be taking the bishop of Rome’s office / title if the state was running the Church of Rome? Your assertion that the pope took the emperor’s title seeming refutes your own argument. Under your theory, wouldn't it be the opposite, with the Emperor be taking and supplanting the pope’s title?

Since the first thirty plus popes were actually martyred by the state, why didn’t the emperors simply take the chair of Peter unto himself?

Once you answer that, we’ll then move on to Constantinople and how it figures into your assertion.

 

[Particular]

If the state controlled the Church of Rome, why was there even a pope to begin with? Wouldnt the Emperor be taking the bishop of Rome’s office / title if the state was running the Church of Rome? Your assertion that the pope took the emperor’s title seeming refutes your own argument. Under your theory, wouldn't it be the opposite, with the Emperor be taking and supplanting the pope’s title?

Since the first thirty plus popes were actually martyred by the state, why didn’t the emperors simply take the chair of Peter unto himself?

Once you answer that, we’ll then move on to Constantinople and how it figures into your assertion.

There wasn't a pope to begin with. Peter was never a pope. He was an Apostle, killed by Rome. When Constantine declared Christianity to be the State Religion, he also set up the Pontifex Maximus to be merged as the Roman Church leader. A perfect power move to ensure Rome had ultimate control over the people. From that time on, the pope was empty of God's Spirit and was a power hungry pawn of Satan.
You should not walk away from the Roman Church. You should run, as fast as you can, from the Roman Church.

 

[robycop3]

Protestantism came about in Sardisean times...

I believe the churches were birthed in time and Christ walks i the midst of all of them...

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20-Revelation 2;1

Ephesus - Messianic
Smyrna - Martyr - Foxes has the Roman persecutions as ten
Pergamos - Orthodox... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

Paul had to chastise the Messianic for not wanting to eat with the early Gentile church and for espying the uncircumcised. And it has been that way ever since. Denominations don’t fellowship often together. It should be obvious in church history....

Messianic have seniority over Orthodox
Orthodox have seniority over Catholic
Catholic has seniority over Protestant
Protestant was before the Great Awakening
The materialistic church came last

In European Thyatirean times you would not have wanted to speak out against the Catholic Church. This spirit, sad to say, also carried over to other denominations.

There ya go with that false "seven church ages" garbage again !

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Actually, the question is better stated what state(s) did the RCC control? Off the top of my head, I'd say Spain, France, The Holy Roman Empire, and the Papal States. And of course, all of Western Europe before the Reformation was under at least nominal papal authority.

What state controlled the Church of Rome?

 

[rockytopva]

There ya go with that false "seven church ages" garbage again !

The church didn't come off of Noah's Ark Catholic or Protestant!

 

[Deadworm]

What, you've never heard of the 1st Baptist Church of Jerusalem? The Early Baptist Church Fathers? Shame on you for being so ignorant of Baptist history.

Ah, but you overlook the fact that the apostles wrote the New Testament in Jerusalem in King James English! That's why so manyh Baptists have joined the King James Only cult!

 

[robycop3]

The church didn't come off of Noah's Ark Catholic or Protestant!

Whatever are you talking about ?

 

[robycop3]

Ah, but you overlook the fact that the apostles wrote the New Testament in Jerusalem in King James English! That's why so manyh Baptists have joined the King James Only cult!

"Gimme the KJV that Paul used !"

 

[MartyF]

From the Baptist History and Heritage Society website. They write: "Our best historical evidence says that Baptists came into existence in England in the early seventeenth century. They apparently emerged out of the Puritan-Separatist movement in the Church of England".

"They formed separate congregations which accepted only believers into their membership, and they baptized converts upon their profession of faith. Their opponents nicknamed them “Baptists,” and the name stuck".

"The first General Baptist church, led by John Smyth, was founded in Amsterdam, Holland, in 1608/09. Its members were English refugees who had fled England to escape religious persecution".

Sorry, but according to your own brethren you are a bit off.

Baptists disagree with each other on this primarily for political reasons. It is commonly said that if you get 3 Baptists in a room, you’ll end up with 5 opinions. Those who push reformed theology will also push the narrative that all Baptists came from reformed theology.

Baptist theology - the primary being believer’s baptism - popped up anytime someone bothered to read the Bible. This is why some Baptists spring up “out of nowhere”.

The passage you quote is even self-contradictory first saying it came from England and then saying it came from continental Europe.

https://www.amazon.com/Baptists-in-...eywords=Baptist+history&qid=1573195886&sr=8-9

You can skip to the final chapter for the summation and get a better idea of the hornet’s nest you are talking to.

What, you've never heard of the 1st Baptist Church of Jerusalem? The Early Baptist Church Fathers? Shame on you for being so ignorant of Baptist history.

Never heard of John the Baptist?

Can you offer any evidence of Protestantism in antiquity?

One obviously can’t be a Protestant if there is nothing to protest. Although some Baptists identify as Protestant, many do not.

 

[Alcott]

From the recently closed thread:

“For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.

You'd have to be an idiot to conclude FAKE FOOD and FAKE DRINK.

Then why didn't the disciples bite off his earlobes (or any part) and eat them then? They ate the Passover bread instead. And later they told the new nonjewish converts that they must abstain from blood, the "true drink."

 

[MartyF]

Ok.

Before this thread dies due to length, I still haven’t heard anything from Catholics about salvation and indulgences. I don’t understand how Catholics believe it works.

Once again, I’m not interested as much about the Baptist perspectives as I’m more familiar with most of those.