To the Catholics visiting the Baptist forum.

[utilyan]

The source being what Luther actually wrote.

What did he actually write then? https://www.prchiz.pl/storage/app/media/pliki/Luther_On_Jews.pdf


There is no other explanation for this than the one cited earlier from Moses, namely, that God has struck them with "madness and blindness and confusion of mind." So we are even at fault in not avenging all this innocent blood of our Lord and of the Christians which they shed for three hundred years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the blood of the children they have shed since then (which still shines forth from their eyes and their skin). We are at fault in not slaying them. Rather we allow them to live freely in our midst despite an their murdering, Martin LUTHER : On the Jews and Their Lies — 76 — cursing, blaspheming, lying, and defaming; we protect and shield their synagogues, houses, life, and property In this way we make them lazy and secure and encourage them to fleece us boldly of our money and goods, as well as to mock and deride us, with a view to finally overcoming us, killing us all for such a great sin, and robbing us of all our property (as they daily pray and hope). Now tell me whether they do not have every reason to be the enemies of us accursed Goyim, to curse us and to strive for our final, complete, and eternal ruin! From all of this we Christians see for the Jews cannot see it what terrible wrath of God these people have incurred and still incur without ceasing, what a fire is gleaming and glowing there, and what they achieve who curse and detest Christ and his Christians. O dear Christians, let us take this horrible example to heart, as St. Paul says in Romans II, and fear God lest we also finally fall victim to such wrath, and even worse! Rather, as we said also earlier, let us honor his divine word and not neglect the time of grace, as Muhammad and the pope have already neglected it, becoming not much better than the Jews.


David do you think he wrote this book Yes or No?

 

[MarysSon]

The title pontifex was used of Roman Catholic bishops and pontifex maximus of the pope by the end of the 4th century.
Pontifex | Roman religion

WRONG.

Here is the source for the Third century document from Tertullian (Di Pudicitia):
Tertullian.org/works/de_pudicitia.htm
Tertullian : De pudicitia

Check your "facts" . . .

 

[Reformed1689]

And I've already proven this wrong.
Thank God we have the writings of the Early Church, huh?

You mean like when several ECF say that John 3:5 isn't talking about baptism but you say it is anyway? Yeah. Thank goodness we have the writings.

 

[Reformed1689]

What did he actually write then? https://www.prchiz.pl/storage/app/media/pliki/Luther_On_Jews.pdf


There is no other explanation for this than the one cited earlier from Moses, namely, that God has struck them with "madness and blindness and confusion of mind." So we are even at fault in not avenging all this innocent blood of our Lord and of the Christians which they shed for three hundred years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the blood of the children they have shed since then (which still shines forth from their eyes and their skin). We are at fault in not slaying them. Rather we allow them to live freely in our midst despite an their murdering, Martin LUTHER : On the Jews and Their Lies — 76 — cursing, blaspheming, lying, and defaming; we protect and shield their synagogues, houses, life, and property In this way we make them lazy and secure and encourage them to fleece us boldly of our money and goods, as well as to mock and deride us, with a view to finally overcoming us, killing us all for such a great sin, and robbing us of all our property (as they daily pray and hope). Now tell me whether they do not have every reason to be the enemies of us accursed Goyim, to curse us and to strive for our final, complete, and eternal ruin! From all of this we Christians see for the Jews cannot see it what terrible wrath of God these people have incurred and still incur without ceasing, what a fire is gleaming and glowing there, and what they achieve who curse and detest Christ and his Christians. O dear Christians, let us take this horrible example to heart, as St. Paul says in Romans II, and fear God lest we also finally fall victim to such wrath, and even worse! Rather, as we said also earlier, let us honor his divine word and not neglect the time of grace, as Muhammad and the pope have already neglected it, becoming not much better than the Jews.


David do you think he wrote this book Yes or No?

One paragraph from a book that is 100 pages in length that also says:

If this should move any Jew to reform and repent, so much the better.

Hans J. Hillerbrand, “About the Jews and Their Lies,” in Christian Life in the World, ed. Hans J. Hillerbrand, Kirsi I. Stjerna, and Timothy J. Wengert, vol. 5, The Annotated Luther (Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, 1543), 458.

 

[Reformed1689]

ANYONE holding your beliefs in antiquity is because they didn't exist.

Paul held our beliefs. Peter held our beliefs.

 

[Reformed1689]

You are repeating a flat out lie.

Please note this was not my statement. My statement is this is a flat out lie.

 

[Reformed1689]

You are clearly talking out of your hat...

---> https://www.amazon.com/Martin-Luthers-Anti-Semitism-Against-Judgment/dp/080286676X

Again, I don't care about a book on Amazon. I have studied Luther extensively and studied the SOURCE material. Not opinions about it.

 

[utilyan]

One paragraph from a book that is 100 pages in length that also says:

So you agree with Martin Luther's theology here in this book?

Do you also believe it is a Sin not to murder Jews as Martin Luther stated?

 

[Particular]

And I've already proven this wrong.
Thank God we have the writings of the Early Church, huh?

You have not proved it wrong. You have attempted to make your church legitimate when it is not.
I have shown you the use of Pontifex Maximus by the pagan priests, going back to Julius Ceasar. This shows the power play that was used by your leaders to gain political dominance in the Roman Empire. There is nothing Godly about what they did.
You should be ashamed of your pagan adopting church. A Jezebel in the body of Christ.

 

[robycop3]

A false gospel if there ever was one. Brought to you by mere men some 1600 years down the line.

No, the RCC "traditions", all MAN-MADE, are false. ALL our intel about God comes from SCRIPTURE. All men have ever done is try to add to Scripture's precepts.

 

[robycop3]

"We follow NO man-made traditions or doctrines of faith/worship EXCEPT for our tradition / doctrine that we rely SOLEY ON THE BIBLE for ALL our intel about God & Scripture is the final authority in all our matters of faith/worship."

Oh, REALLY?

Please show us where the office of pope or cardinal is in Scripture.

Please show us where mariolatry is in Scripture.

Please show us where men made saints of other men in Scripture.

Please show us where men prayed to the dead in Scripture.

Please show us where purgatory is in Scripture.

Please show us where celibacy for the clergy is in Scripture.

I could exceed the word limit for one post & not even begin to show RCC beliefs & preactices not in Scripture !

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I must not have been clear in my earlier statements. So once more:

This is not a neutral venue. The name of the discussion board is Baptist Board. I ask the RCC posters to look at their posts. Then, ask themselves how well posts with the same tone would be received on an RCC board if a Baptist had posted there.​

 

[Reformed1689]

So you agree with Martin Luther's theology here in this book?

Do you also believe it is a Sin not to murder Jews as Martin Luther stated?

Red Herring. I never said I agreed with what Luther wrote did I? No. What I said was, his writings were not anti-semitic. Those are two totally different things.

 

[robycop3]

The Bishop's known as the Early Church Fathers disagree with you, so I will go with them on this one.

They were simply wrong.

 

[Reformed1689]

The Bishop's known as the Early Church Fathers disagree with you, so I will go with them on this one.

Is that the ECF from what century? ECF is a BROAD time range.

 

[robycop3]

And here comes the, "You're a liar!" schtick.


---> Sola Scriptura is a tradition / doctrine NOT found in Scripture. This is a fact, not a lie.

Neither is the Holy Trinity. But it's clearly implied.

And Jesus repeatedly told Satan, "It is written..." & Satan had no answers.

Now, please show us from the New Testament where God gave any man authority to make doctrines or set worship policy.

 

[Hollow Man]

I must not have been clear in my earlier statements. So once more:

This is not a neutral venue. The name of the discussion board is Baptist Board. I ask the RCC posters to look at their posts. Then, ask themselves how well posts with the same tone would be received on an RCC board if a Baptist had posted there.​

Go to Catholic.com sometime. Their favorite trick is to ask you a question about what Protestantism or a given Protestant denomination teaches, pretending to ask sincerely, in good faith (no pun intended). And then, when you answer, they ban you for "doctrines contrary to Catholicism" or "proselytizing".

The Catholic Church is a damnable cult and its followers are obnoxious and reprehensible. It's no wonder they molest children.

 

[MartyF]

You posted random Scriptures, none of which mention sola Scriptura.

Do you know what sola Scriptura means?


"Sola Scriptura" = only Scripture

(Source: Latin Dictionary and Grammar Aid)



Only: without others or anything further; alone; solely; exclusively

(Source: Definition of only | Dictionary.com)



Scripture: the sacred writings of the Old or New Testaments or both together

(Source: Definition of scripture | Dictionary.com)

So you're admitting that you don't what motif means? Would you like me to start a thread explaining the term motif? Or would you like me to address the motif of Sola Scriptura within the New Testament?

 

[Hollow Man]

If sola Scriptura is repeated throughout the New Testament, post one single verse stating it.

Here you go, [edit: flaming]

2nd Kings 22:10-13 - "And Shaphan the scribe shewed the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath delivered me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes. And the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Michaiah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asahiah a servant of the king's, saying, Go ye, enquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not harkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us."

2nd Timothy 3:16-17 - "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for Doctrine, for Reproof, for Correction, for Instruction in Righteousness; that the man of God may be thoroughly Furnished unto all good works."

Matthew 4:3-4
- "And when the tempter came to Him, he said, if Thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Matthew 4:5-11
- Then the Devil taketh Him up into the Holy City, and setteth Him on a pinnacle of the Temple, and saith unto Him, if Thou be the Son of God, cast Thyself down; for it is written, He shall give His angels charge concerning Thee, and in their hands they shall bear Thee up, lest at any time Thou dash Thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is Written Again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

Matthew 4:8
- "Again, the Devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and saith unto Him, all these things will I give Thee, if Thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan; for it is written, thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve."

Matthew 21:42
- "Jesus said unto them, did ye never read in the scriptures, the Stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner; this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our Eyes!"

Revelation 22:18-19
-"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Proverbs 30:5-6
- "Every word of God is pure, He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him. add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a Liar!"

Matthew 12:3-5
-"but He said unto them, have ye not read what David did when he was an hungered, and they that were with Him?"

Matthew 19:4-5
"And He answered and said unto them, have ye not read that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, for this reason shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

Matthew 22:31-32
- "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God saying, I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the Living."

Luke 10:26
- "He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?"

Matthew 22:29
-"..Ye do ERR, not knowing THE SCRIPTURES, nor the Power of God!"

Matthew 26:24
-"The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born".

John 5:39
- "Search the Scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me."

 

[Hollow Man]

...

And since we know how much you guys love he ECFs...

Augustine of Hippo: "This Mediator (Jesus Christ), having spoken what He judged sufficient first by the prophets, then by His own lips, and afterwards by the apostles, has besides produced the scripture which is called canonical, which has Paramount Authority, and to which we yield assent in all matters of which we ought not to be ignorant, and yet cannot know of ourselves." (Augustine of Hippo, City of God, Book 11, Chapter 3)

Cyril of Jerusalem: This seal have thou ever on thy mind; which now by way of summary has been touched on in its heads, and if the Lord grant, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture-proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures (A Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church (Oxford: Parker, 1845), The Catechetical Lectures of S. Cyril 4.17).

Gregory of Nyssa: "The generality of men still fluctuate in their opinions about this, which are as erroneous as they are numerous. As for ourselves, if the Gentile philosophy, which deals methodically with all these points, were really adequate for a demonstration, it would certainly be superfluous to add a discussion on the soul to those speculations, but while the latter proceeded, on the subject of the soul, as far in the direction of supposed consequences as the thinker pleased, we are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet (dogma); we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings." (Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Peabody: Hendrikson, 1995), Second Series: Volume V, Philosophical Works, On the Soul And the Resurrection, p. 439).

Gregory of Nyssa: “Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words.” (On the Holy Trinity NPNF, p. 327)

Basil the Great, Bishop of Caesarea: "Enjoying as you do the consolation of the Holy Scriptures, you stand in need neither of my assistance nor of that of anybody else to help you comprehend your duty. You have the all-sufficient counsel and guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead you to what is right" (Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Peabody: Hendrikson, 1995), Second Series: Volume VIII, Basil: Letters and Select Works, Letter CCLXXXIII, p. 312).

Basil the Great: “We are not content simply because this is the tradition of the Fathers. What is important is that the Fathers followed the meaning of the Scripture.” (On the Holy Spirit, 7.16)

Augustine: This Mediator: [Jesus Christ], having spoken what He judged sufficient first by the prophets, then by His own lips, and afterwards by the apostles, has besides produced the Scripture which is called canonical, which has paramount authority, and to which we yield assent in all matters of which we ought not to be ignorant, and yet cannot know of ourselves. (City of God, book XI, Chapter 3, )

Augustine: Better far that I should read with certainty and persuasion of its truth the Holy Scripture, placed on the highest (even the heavenly) pinnacle of authority, and should, without questioning the trustworthiness of its statements, learn from it that men have been either, commended, or corrected, or condemned, than that, through fear of believing that by men, who, though of most praiseworthy excellence, were no more than men, actions deserving rebuke might sometimes be done, I should admit suspicions affecting the trustworthiness of the whole “oracles of God.” (Letters of St. Augustine, Letter 82.2.5)

Augustine: “Many false Christs and false prophets shall arise, and shall do many signs and wonders, that they may deceive, if it were possible, the very elect: behold, I have told you before.” This shows that the established authority of Scripture must outweigh every other; for it derives new confirmation from the progress of events which happen, as Scripture proves, in fulfillment of the predictions made so long before their occurrence. (Reply to Faustus the Manichaean 13.5)

Augustine: “Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God.” (De unitate ecclesiae, 10)

Irenaeus: “We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.” (Against Heresies 3.1.1)

Clement of Alexandria: “But those who are ready to toil in the most excellent pursuits, will not desist from the search after truth, till they get the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves.” (The Stromata, 7:16)

Athanasius: “The holy and inspired Scriptures are fully sufficient for the proclamation of the truth.” (Against the Heathen, 1:3 )

Ambrose: “For how can we adopt those things which we do not find in the holy Scriptures?” (On the Duties of the Clergy, 1:23:102)