to the people wondering about gluttony

All sin is deadly as it represents separation from God. I agree we are to preach/teach all scripture without bias but this can be done without judging or convicting one another.

Edify = yes
Convict = no sir

Educate = yes
Judge = no sir

Enlighten = yes
Condemn = no sir

You fulfilled your mission when you teach your brother the word of God not when you made him loose weight or feel guilty for his size. There is a righteous judge who has years of experience judging and doesn’t need our help to do His job… :thumbs:

 

I find it interesting in this thread and another that people quote this verse to justify gluttony. Jesus was accused, but that does not mean he was a glutton, and it surely does not give approval to gluttony. The logic here is twisted and will not hold.

If that one meal a day comprises eating 4500 calories, then yes it is gluttonous. Regardless of whether it is a meal of 500 or 5000 calories it is a very unhealthy way to live and will bring on seroius medical problems.

Gluttony is the most tolerated and most popular sin in America.:tonofbricks:

 

For me, it comes down to the body being the temple of the Holy Spirit. I agree overeating is ignored, but it is not justification for other sinful habits. Over eating rarely destroys families, careers, and lives. Alcohol, drugs, and addictive gambling often times do.

 

Actually I said Jesus drank fermented drink because *He*said it. When Christs states a fact, we must believe Him whether we like the fact or not.

He said He drank that which John abstained from, which is "wine and other fermented drink". That has nothing to do with the Pharisees accusation. Yes, the pharisees accused Him of being a drunkard, but I'm not saying He was a drunkard (He certainly was not). Christ said the reason was accused by them, however, is because *He drank that which John abstained from*.

Again, John 1:13. . . 15, says ". . . give him the name John . . . (15) for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth. And then In Matthew 11:18 Jesus says, "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking... [and is nonetheless accused also]." The point made is that no one could do right in the eyes of the pharisees... whether or not one drank fermented drink didn't matter, they were going to find a way to accuse the person either way.

To deny Christ's words, I believe, is to side with the Pharisees... traditionalists and legalists who reasoned no one can drink a sip of wine without being a drunkard. Police breathalyzer tests and medical science have shown that to just not be the case. Christ's words seem awfully plain. He could not have been more clear. They didn't know what ethyl alcohol was back then. They just called it wine. He drank that which John abstained from, which is defined by the Word as "wine and other fermented drink".

What would you need Him to say? "John came abstaining from ethyl alcohol, but the Son of Man came drinking it." Come on... I mean seriously.

 

I agree with you except that overeating does take lives, the life of the person who overeats. Also it destroys their health. There was a report of a study recently that said overweight and obese people cost the medical system less. Why, because they die younger.

Obesity and being overweight in the US is epidemic. Now many teenagers are developing Type II Diabetes ... which used to be called "Adult Onset Diabetes." Why? Simply because they are overweight or obese. It is a self inflicted, terrible disease.

Seems like though there is much information available it is like :BangHead:

 

AAAAAAMEN! I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It's our job to love, it's the Holy Spirit's job to convict. So far the Holy Spirit hasn't asked us for assistance.

 

I agree that other sins should not be ignored. However, I also say gluttony should not be ignored and only other sins (being addicted to wine, a drunkard, a drug abuser, homosexuality, etc.) talked about. As it is in the church, you hear much about certain sins but almost nothing about gluttony.

Like Crabtownboy said above, Gluttony and overeating literally kills off many people by being a primary cause of deadly diseases. It doesn't get any more "destructive" then death! It also destroys the witness of the Church because it makes the church look hypocritical (judging the culture on a variety of its sins, and then publicly ignoring their own sin of eating until they weigh twice their normal weight and pop an artery).

 

I agree that it is not our job to convict each other. I would add that we cannot convict each other... that is the realm of the Holy Spirit and the individual's conscience. But if one were to say we should not talk about sins prevalent in the Church in an effort edify each other about those sins because it will offend some people... I would wholeheartedly disagree.

 

Let me take this in a somewhat different direction. A lot of people over eat because of other problems in their lives, like stress, loneliness, abuse, etc,. Shouldn't we be looking at the cause of over eating, rather than just accuse someone of being greedy or lazy?

love,

Sopranette

 

That is a good point and surely those reasons do lead some to overeat. This is not approving of the overeating, but the recognition of a fact. :wavey:

 

That depends, one meal which lasts all day might be.


You do have a sense of humor don't you brother?

HankD

 

Gluttony is the absence of sharing with others.

A man and a woman who have many children prepare an evening supper for all. The children are given oat meal and the parents have steak and potatoes, green beans and corn on the cob. The children are told to eat their supper or go to bed. The children are begging for some corn and meat. The parents chastise them and send them to bed without any having ate their oatmeal. The oat meal goes cold and along with the steak bones are tossed out to the dog. That my friend is what gluttony is. This is the hideous nature of the sin. This is what the Bible is exposing as an evil.

Say what you want to about Charles Dickens but this is the whole premise for writing "Oliver Twist". He exposed the gluttony of his day and the workhouses and methods of adoption were forced to clean up their acts. Children were adopted for the sole purpose of servitude and profit. Children would end up in gangs only to be exploited and trained to be hardened criminals.

Gluttony is evil and it destroys lives.

To set down at a fully prepared meal where all can feast, is not gluttony. To eat until satisfied is not gluttony. To get up and take a nap afterwards is not gluttony, that is out and out laziness. That is slothfulness and that is the sin that most of America is guilty of. Sense this thread is a dedicated to the discussion of gluttony we'll leave the topic of slothfulness to another thread. However slothfulness is the sin that aught to be discussed as this is the sin that is being ignored. Over eating can be offset by increased activity. This is not gluttony in the Biblical sense.

Slothfulness breeds obesity. Obesity breeds diabetics. Diabetics breed an overburdened healthcare system. Slothfulness tears down the body and if that person is a child of Christ then that child is destroying the temple of the Holy Spirit. Not through gluttony but through slothfulness.

The Pharisee called Jesus a glutton because he sat and ate with publicans. Publicans were the epitome of gluttony. They were the common tax collector and were always known for taking more than their share. They were allowed by the Roman Govt to take as they needed for themselves as long as they gave Rome what Rome wanted. By association is why Jesus is called a glutton. To point and call an overweight individual a glutton is to judge without knowing the person but judgment by association with his weight. This is Pharisaical.

First find out why that person is overweight. It just might be unavoidable. As in my case I have added a few pounds because of arthritic feet and am having to keep them elevated until they can heal from surgery. Even though I have cut way back from eating I am still loosing the battle of weight gain. Some loving investigation without being nosy can reveal the person's problem and you just might be motivated by the Holy Spirit to provide help to that person. If you learn that it is slothfulness then be that persons best friend and get him up and doing things. If you learn that he is a glutton call him to repentance, because there is no way a glutton, in the Biblical sense, can be a Christian.

 

If you read my post you will see I in no way said any sin should not be discussed/taught as a transgression against God. That would be neglecting our duties... Edify... You think a liar doesn't know lying is wrong? You think a theif doesn't know stealing is wrong? So I would take the same approach with gluttony as with any sin.

My point was we must be careful to not justify judging with the word edify. You make one understand through instruction not by aqcusations

Here you injected an excellent point. Slothfulness... It goes hand in hand with many posts here. Crabtownboy said 5000 calories is gluttony. However, if you burn 5001 calories it isn't gluttony. 500 calories will barely sustain life. But if you burn 450 calories it will add up over time to appear as gluttony when in reality burning 450 calories more begs slothfulness then gluttony. However, there could be a medical condition which eliminates any physical activity and the list goes on... This is why it is not our job to judge as there is one who knows the truth about all our lives, even our inner most secrets and thoughts. He never get’s it wrong.

This is why I think Palatka51 hit the nail on the head by saying...

 

I agree with most of what you said Brother.

Or it could just mean you are getting old and must nap in order to keep going. Also, if you are young or never been real sick, then you just do not know what you are talking about when it comes to overweight because of the medication. Someone who has a transplanted organ, get very heavy from the medication. Someone who's heart is not functioning right, will gain fluid and get very heavy. To use "overweight" as gluttony in my opionion, is not taking into account all the facts, whether through ignorance or just blinded.

BBob,

 

Gluttony is to food what being a drunkard is to alcohol. The two are often mentioned together for this reason. Being a drunkard is drinking more then the appropriate amount of alcohol.... it is drinking passed satisfaction and until "drunk" to use a common phrase. That is why Jesus was able to drink the "wine and other fermented drink" John abstained from, but still was not a drunkard. That is also why "drunk driving" is not driving after one beer, but typically it takes 3 or more beers in quick succession to be charged with that offense. Being drunk is drinking until your liver cannot process the amount of alcohol you are putting into it. The excess goes to your brain and stays there, and you start to stumble and not be in control of your body any longer. (Science has shown the liver can processes 2-3 drinks per hour up to a certain point, by the way... though that differs with weight and sex, it could be as little as 1).

Anyway, similarly, being a glutton is eating more then the appropriate amount of food. It is eating until the body starts storing fat in excess b/c it has nothing to do with all the extra calories you put into it. Gluttony is eating after you've had enough.

I grant that exercise can increase one's caloric requirements, so in that sense it can increase the amount of food that is appropriate. However, that doesn't change what gluttony is, it just changes what "enough" means for that particular person. The fact that some bodies can process slightly more alcohol then other bodies before "drunkenness" starts to occur doesn't change the fact that "drunk" is simply drinking passed a certain point. Gluttony is eating too much, it is eating more then your body requires. That's it.

Most people are overweight because they eat more then their body requires. Period. That being said, I agree that it is wrong to point at any person and call them a "most definite" glutton. There are other things that can cause obesity, rare as they are. However, it is not wrong to assume that person is most likely a glutton. Similarly it is not wrong to say a person in prison for theft is most a thief. Only God can know for sure if that person is a theif, since God is the ultimate Judge. But given our system of legal due process, we can and are free to analyze the likelihood that the person did in fact commit larceny.

Just like convictions of the innocent are relatively rare in our legal system, so obesity amongst people who do not consume more food then they require is relatively rare. Unless evidence to the contrary is presented, it is safe to assume people in prison for theft are thieves, and I assume that obese people do not have the extremely rare genetic/hormonal diseases that also cause obesity.

That doesn't mean I "judge" them. The fact is if this thread were titled "a question about murder," and we were talking about Adolf Hitler, and I was pondering whether he really did commit the sin of murdering people or if in fact he was just helping the human race as he said, then you probably would be weighing in with some Scripture of your own, perhaps some historical facts, and saying, "No, it seems Adolf did in fact murder."

We can analyze activities, even activities of specific people, and ask whether they are sinful or not. We can come to conclusions from our own readings of the Scriptures, and use those conclusions to guide our own lives and to help provide guidance to others. Identifying sin is half the battle of making sure not to commit it ourselves.

Judgment has to do with analyzing and then handing down a *sentence*. That is what is meant by "he who has no sin *cast the first stone*". In addition to a skewed view of gluttony, many in the church also have a skewed view of what "judgment" is and use it simply as an insult to levy toward people they disagree with.

 

That line of logic doesn't make any sense, jsn. That's like saying ALL thieves are in jail. Well, guess what, only a percentage of thieves are in jail, those that have been TRIED and FOUND GUILTY. You are pre judging people based on your own opinion.
What I'm trying to say is that, it's more complicated than just extra calories=extra pounds. Don't you think doctors know that already, and tell their overweight patients this every day? Don't you think us every day people know it, too, by now? I'm willing to gamble and say that, most of the time, there is some other factor leading up to the weight gain, and there is more to it than just spouting off about gluttony. You really need to get to know your brothers and sisters well before you make such a harsh statement about their sins.

love,

Sopranette

 

No, you are absolutely categorically wrong. Gluttony is to deny those that have a need for a certain item, be it food or whatever, that you want to hoard unto yourself.

Answer this, In the parable of the talents one person was given 5 talents another was given 2 talents and another 1. Who was the glutton? The one with 5 and increased his to ten? Maybe the one who had 2 and increased his to 4? Or is it the one who hoarded his 1 talent to himself and did not get the increase?
You see that if you give you will have an increase. You hoard your gift you'll loose it. Gluttony is just that.

 

Every single one of us is a unique blend of emotions and experiences. You really need to get to know someone before you have any right to condemn him or her. This can be done in a loving matter, as one human to another, as one sinner to another, and not as a cold lecture with scientific facts to back you up.

love,

Sopranette

 

One of the biggest problems I see is that there are people who are food addicts. yes, food addiction exists. There are treatments for drug addicts, alcohol addicts, even in churches. But what has your church, or you done to treat and help food addicts? Is complaining and name calling really the best way? They say eating triggers something in the brain (forgot the name)which causes the 'feel good' like apparently alcohol and drugs do(no experience so I don't know).