to the people wondering about gluttony

I think he's joking. You can't really give up food.

love,

Sopranette

 

You can be addicted to the ministry, according to Paul...

 

Still confused!

I do agree and understand your analysis. I merely asked the question following the moderator waring that was given on page 1, which says -

Although I gotta' admit, I don't see where computers are any food for gluttony, although I agree they (and the BB) are addictive.

I, myself, have 6000 examples of addiction to the BB posted.

Yeah, I've lost a couple hundred over the years as games fora were deleted in their entirety. :laugh:

Ed, BB 'junkie'

 

Yep, joking to make a point.

Today the gluttony folks are talking about are food disorders and a lack of proper dieting. In the time of Christ gluttony was a wicked and awful sin and it still is. Gluttony is not a sin of a child of God.

What best describes gluttony to me is the scene in "Oliver Twist" by Charles Dickens. When in the workhouse the orphaned boys are served rice water while the operators and dignitaries of the workhouse are feasting at a table that is lavished with all the splendorous foods that a man can eat and the children go undernourished. That is the Biblical sense of the word.

That would also fit the reason the Pharisees called Jesus a Glutton as He was eating with publicans who often practiced similar eating habits. Publicans having taken from the people their hard earned money for Roman taxes would take more than their share. They would then have a feast for themselves while the taxed burdened peasant would struggle to gather just enough to get their next meal.
Because Jesus sat at a meal with the publicans the Pharisees sought an opportunity against Him, hoping to discredit Him to the multitudes that followed Him.

Quite frankly I think that is real reason that we are debating "gluttony" among Preachers that are overweight. It is a method for discrediting the message of the Pastor who is preaching against the use of alcohol as a beverage. When the Preacher is not a glutton in the Biblical sense but has an eating disorder or is practising poor dieting habits.

Should they get their dieting under control? Yes!

Should the drinker of alcohol stop their drinking? Yes!

Should we stop judging by association? Absolutely!

Should we avoid the very appearance of evil? By all means possible!

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment. Perhaps someone already made this point on this thread and I missed it, but a man I know--who smokes 2-3 packs of cigarettes a day--says that his slightly overweight pastor has NO RIGHT to admonish him for smoking until he quits being a glutton. I'm not trying to derail the thread by throwing in the "whether smoking is a sin" thing--I'm just pointing out that I KNOW someone who uses the "gluttony-defense" to excuse his own less-than-healthy behavior.

 

Folks will come up with ANY excuse to justify sin. I had a man tell me he did not come to church because there was a tree in his yard. When I asked him why that made him stay home he simply said One excuse is as good as another.

 

Voracity of appetite doesn't have to be about food. Over indulgence is selfishness and that lack of control of ones own desires. We should all avoid over indulgence no matter what. To much of what seems to be a good thing can harm us and that to me is what glutony really is. glutony is a lust for more of what we really do not need.
The truth hurts.
MB

 

I agree. "If it were a sin then, it are a sin now!"

Getting off-track a sec. What sins are sins of a child of God? Are there some specific ones that are? I thought we'd had several threads that declared that there were sins that a child of God cannot commit, so I wonder which ones they can commit, - but I'm 'derailing'.

Back to gluttony! Then why are admonitions addressed to Christians to avoid gluttony? I know there have to be several.

(Uh, Since I seem to have forgotten which verses were here, in this thread, cited from Scripture that declare that 'gluttony is a sin', or to avoid it, would someone please help refresh my fading memory?)

Hold it!!

Didn't you just say something about somebody, being overweight? 'Now you've went and done it!'

"Ya' done quit preachin' and gone to meddlin'!" :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

So, then, according to you:
1) the translators of the Bible (choosing to use the word gluttony),
2) the writers of the English Dictionary (who define it primarily as excessive eating), and
3) everyone on this board (according to your statement below)
is wrong about the definition of gluttony.

Not only that, but even the Apostle Paul is wrong about both drink and food possibly causing others to stumble, since he mentions both as potential stumbling blocks that can cause someone to sin.

:thumbs: okie dokey.

There is a a disorder which is known for the symptoms you are exhibiting. It is called Delusions of Grandeur. I suggest you seek professional help.

Seriously.

 

Here are a couple:

Proverbs 28:7 declares, "He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father."

Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, "put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony."

Which brings up an interesting point... not only should we not be gluttonous, but we shouldn't even be a *companion* of gluttons or we risk disgracing our Father!

In that case, if your preacher is 400lbs... perhaps you should not only lovingly address and perhaps warn him about his potential sin (I say potential b/c there is an off chance his obesity could be caused by hormonal problems and not excessive eating), but you perhaps should even find a better church where you can become a companion of your preacher without disgracing the Father!

 

The piont I was attempting to make was that the subject was being 'argued' without one specific reference to Scripture.

Thanks for now listing a couple of verse about this. BTW, all the main-line versions I checked, aside from the NIV, which is apparently the version you are using, translated Prov. 23:2 as "appetite". FTR, I have (unlike some) nothing particularly against the NIV. I just don't happen to usually prefer the translation style of "dynamic equivalence", nor do I happen to have one, on me.

But I would assume (based on what you said) that you would not have listened to Charles Spurgeon or D. L. Moody, for a couple of examples. If my memory serves, from "church history" class of almost 40 years ago, and the history of them is accurate, both were very large men.

And FTR, it would have taken about two, and maybe three, in one instance, of all the nine pastors I've had, over the years, to hit 400#.

I Dunno! Maybe none of 'em were really Baptists and they didn't like fried chicken??

Ed

 

Some times I am very thankful for broad shoulders. May I exhibit the mind of Christ. Have mercy my brother, no one has attacked any one until now. I thought that we were discussing gluttony, my delusions should be reserved for another thread. And then only for those that know me.

EdSutton, if you want I'll let you in. :thumbs:

Peace.

 

I don't take gluttony lightly, and I don' t think anyone should... no matter how charismatic or well versed the preacher is. If an activity is a sin, then it should not be something a Christian, especially a preacher, engages in habitually. The fact that a particular preacher is popular does not mean, to me, that I also need to adore him.

I don't get into this "good preacher" "bad preacher" thing. I think there are true preachers and false preachers. Now there may be good speakers and bad speakers, but that has nothing to do with speaking and living the truth. That has to do with a trained or natural ability to speak in motivational or exciting ways. There are "good preachers" (by which I mean good speakers) who preach nothing but falsehood.

So, all that being said, I'm not sure how large either of the men you mentioned were. I do believe there is such a thing as being naturally "stocky". And the Scriptures don't clearly define obesity. Pictures I've seen of these men vary in how large they are portrayed, and some of them make it look to me like these men were just big boned. I have no idea, having never met them, if they were in fact very obese. But that being said, if either of the men were obese like Falwell (400lbs and innumerable chins and no known medical problem to cause such an excess in fat), then I would stay away, yes, very far away. There are two things that cause such obesity. . . overeating habitually over a long period of time, and very rare genetic disorders.

Spurgeon, I believe, also smoked cigars habitually. Nowhere in the Scriptures can I find that is a sin. So I don't believe it is a sin. But I do know it causes cancer. I know I would never want my children to take up that habit. So I would likely (had I lived at the time) not wanted to take my children to hear such a man preach, especially if he was an excellent speaker, for fear they would begin to look up to him so much and want to be like him that they would take up smoking habitually.

That being said, had I actually lived at the time I likely would not have feared smoking so much, since they didn't know the horrible cancers it causes.

 

Spurgeon also suffered from gout. Can't you get gout from being a glutton? At his death he was a heavy man. He died at the age of 57.

 

Gout has been linked to obesity. But it is not rare for it to be caused by something other then obesity.

 

Right again! I've known three people who were afflicted with gout, including my father, over the years. None of them were heavy, and only one 'knew' what was his primary culprit - pork.

My father (and my mother and I) had no clue as to his culprit, for it would just 'appear' without any real explanation or dietetic reason, that any of us could discern.

The one who knew, my one-time boss, could and did eat more beef than I could possibly stomach, at one sitting, and I love beef, but pork could send him into agony for a couple of days.

Ed

 

News flash: all preachers struggle with sin: some are more public than others. If you're going to remove youreslf from any preacher because of sin struggles, then you'll never hear another sermon.

Please hear me out: There are sins which should disqualify a man from occupying a pulpit, and from people listening to him preach. If I had a pastor carrying on an adulterous affair, ....big problem. He needs to vacate the pulpit...and I need to find another preacher to listen to. (actually, both should happen). Scripture, and being wise, will guide us through this.

But IMO there's an extreme the other way...where we hold our preachers to a standard of perfection to which no one could possibly hold.

 

FTR, I never said or implied that Charles Spurgeon or "Mr. Moody", were any undefined "obese", only that they were rather large individuals.

Also, FTR, I kinda' doubt that Jerry Falwekll weighed any 400#, either, although I would definitely consider him to be overweight.

At one time, I weighed over 300#, myself, and although I happen to be about 3 or 4" taller than Fallwell, he was probably not 100# worth, larger than I was. He might have reached close to 350 or so, IMO.

Interestingly, the fairly large Dr. Jerry Falwell at 73, and the fairly thin Dr. D. James Kennedy at 76, both died within about three months, from cardio-vascular problems. (But just look at the size of the shoes they left to be filled!)

Weight alone, was apparently not the only culprit, I would say.

Ed

 

Are you guys still talking about gluttony... :sleeping_2:

 

Well, I was, but first I had to stop and ea...

Just a sec. -Rumble - Buu-urp!

Rumble.. Bupp!

Uh- where was I??? Somehow, I seem to have lost my train of thou...



Ed