Today, I have "fathered" you?

[Van]

We find this curious phrase several times in scripture. See Psalm 2:7, Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 5:5.

The Hebrew word translated as "fathered" by the NASB is "yalad" (H3205) and is used literally to mean to biologically produce someone, but is also used figuratively, as in Psalm 2:7 to mean to install someone in some position for a purpose.

In Acts 13:33 the Greek word is "gennao" (G1080) and is used in this verse to indicate Christ was established for a purpose, i.e. to fulfill His Messianic prophecies. Note the context of verse, God was raising up or bringing forth Jesus for an undertaking.

In Hebrews 1:5 and 5:5 we see Jesus, God incarnate, established for the purpose of fulfilling His role as Redeemer, Lamb of God, the Messiah, Christ, Anointed One.

Thus, this phrase does NOT provide any actual support for the fiction Jesus is a created being.

 

[37818]

We find this curious phrase several times in scripture. See Psalm 2:7, Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 5:5.

The Hebrew word translated as "fathered" by the NASB is "yalad" (H3205) and is used literally to mean to biologically produce someone, but is also used figuratively, as in Psalm 2:7 to mean to install someone in some position for a purpose.

In Acts 13:33 the Greek word is "gennao" (G1080) and is used in this verse to indicate Christ was established for a purpose, i.e. to fulfill His Messianic prophecies. Note the context of verse, God was raising up or bringing forth Jesus for an undertaking.

In Hebrews 1:5 and 5:5 we see Jesus, God incarnate, established for the purpose of fulfilling His role as Redeemer, Lamb of God, the Messiah, Christ, Anointed One.

Thus, this phrase does NOT provide any actual support for the fiction Jesus is a created being.

Psalm 2:7 is a prophecy of the bodily resurrection of the incarnate Son of God.

 

[Ascetic X]

We find this curious phrase several times in scripture. See Psalm 2:7, Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 5:5.

The Hebrew word translated as "fathered" by the NASB is "yalad" (H3205) and is used literally to mean to biologically produce someone, but is also used figuratively, as in Psalm 2:7 to mean to install someone in some position for a purpose.

In Acts 13:33 the Greek word is "gennao" (G1080) and is used in this verse to indicate Christ was established for a purpose, i.e. to fulfill His Messianic prophecies. Note the context of verse, God was raising up or bringing forth Jesus for an undertaking.

In Hebrews 1:5 and 5:5 we see Jesus, God incarnate, established for the purpose of fulfilling His role as Redeemer, Lamb of God, the Messiah, Christ, Anointed One.

Thus, this phrase does NOT provide any actual support for the fiction Jesus is a created being.

You forgot the essential role of the Son of God, before He was born as the human Jesus — His role as Logos, the Word, the Speaking Into Being Power, the Channel Through Whom the Universe Was Created and Is Sustained, the exact representation of the Father as His Mind and Personality, according to John 1:1 and Hebrews 1:3.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word.

 

[Van]

You forgot the essential role of the Son of God, before He was born as the human Jesus — His role as Logos, the Word, the Speaking Into Being Power, the Channel Through Whom the Universe Was Created and Is Sustained, the exact representation of the Father as His Mind and Personality, according to John 1:1 and Hebrews 1:3.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word.

I did not forget this truth, as presented in your post, because it was also contained in my post. Jesus was NOT created, but is "God incarnate." However, you are correct, I did not mention that one of Christ's purposes was indeed to present God, being an exact representation.

 

[Van]

Psalm 2:7 is a prophecy of the bodily resurrection of the incarnate Son of God.

No, I do not think so. But is certainly a decree by Yahweh, that the Messiah will reign as King, so the idea is to install Logos as King.

 

[37818]

.

No, I do not think so. But is certainly a decree by Yahweh, that the Messiah will reign as King, so the idea is to install Logos as King.

Then you disagree with Acts 13:33, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

 

[JesusFan]

We find this curious phrase several times in scripture. See Psalm 2:7, Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 5:5.

The Hebrew word translated as "fathered" by the NASB is "yalad" (H3205) and is used literally to mean to biologically produce someone, but is also used figuratively, as in Psalm 2:7 to mean to install someone in some position for a purpose.

In Acts 13:33 the Greek word is "gennao" (G1080) and is used in this verse to indicate Christ was established for a purpose, i.e. to fulfill His Messianic prophecies. Note the context of verse, God was raising up or bringing forth Jesus for an undertaking.

In Hebrews 1:5 and 5:5 we see Jesus, God incarnate, established for the purpose of fulfilling His role as Redeemer, Lamb of God, the Messiah, Christ, Anointed One.

Thus, this phrase does NOT provide any actual support for the fiction Jesus is a created being.

Jesus the man did not existed until the time of the conception in womb of Mary, but he also had eternally preexisted as Word of the Father, and he became the Son of God at the Incarnation

 

[Van]

.
Then you disagree with Acts 13:33, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Sorry but your claim ignores the context presented in the OP. Posting "taint so" does not move the ball.

1) Begotten is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word used in Psalm 2:7. Should be translated as "today I have designated you."

2) Begotten is a mistranslation of the Greek word used in Acts 13:33. Should be translated as "today I have established you"

 

[Van]

Jesus the man did not existed until the time of the conception in womb of Mary, but he also had eternally preexisted as Word of the Father, and he became the Son of God at the Incarnation

Logos certainly was the "Word of God" the second Person of the Trinity.

Please provide the verse that reads "Word of the Father."

Jesus, the human man, was NOT created! Yes His physical body was created, but He did not have a human mind. He did not have a human "soul." He did not have a human "spirit." He was God incarnate. God in the flesh.

 

[Ascetic X]

Jesus, the human man, was NOT created! Yes His physical body was created, but He did not have a human mind. He did not have a human "soul." He did not have a human "spirit." He was God incarnate. God in the flesh.

Orthodox Christian theology holds that Jesus had a complete human soul (mind, will, and emotions) alongside his divine nature.

To be fully human, Jesus required a human soul and body; otherwise, his humanity would be incomplete. This human soul allowed him to experience human emotions, intellectual growth, and fleshly temptation while remaining divine and sinless.

Jesus was "like us in every respect except for sin," meaning he possessed a human intellect and will.

Denying Jesus had a human soul (a heresy known as Apollinarianism) would mean he was merely a divine spirit inside a human body, which contradicts the incarnation.

Apollinarianism is a 4th-century Christian heresy originated by Apollinaris of Laodicea (c. 310–390 AD), which taught that Jesus had a human body and sensitive soul, but his rational mind was replaced by the divine Logos. It was condemned as heresy by the First Council of Constantinople in 381 for denying Christ’s full humanity.

 

[Van]

Orthodox Christian theology holds that Jesus had a complete human soul (mind, will, and emotions) alongside his divine nature.

To be fully human, Jesus required a human soul and body; otherwise, his humanity would be incomplete. This human soul allowed him to experience human emotions, intellectual growth, and fleshly temptation while remaining divine and sinless.

Jesus was "like us in every respect except for sin," meaning he possessed a human intellect and will.

Denying Jesus had a human soul (a heresy known as Apollinarianism) would mean he was merely a divine spirit inside a human body, which contradicts the incarnation.

Apollinarianism is a 4th-century Christian heresy originated by Apollinaris of Laodicea (c. 310–390 AD), which taught that Jesus had a human body and sensitive soul, but his rational mind was replaced by the divine Logos. It was condemned as heresy by the First Council of Constantinople in 381 for denying Christ’s full humanity.

Please provide a link to a published site.

Note when Christ gave up His "spirit" His body died. He did not give up two spirits, one human, one divine. Since Jesus was God in the flesh, His spirit was His divine spirit.

Your views does not seem to have any basis in scripture. What verse indicates Christ had two spirits? What verse indicates the mind of Christ was not divine?

Born anew believers have the mind of Christ because they are indwelt with the Spirit of Christ.

 

[Van]

The premise is Christ had a divine Spirit, God incarnate, and a human body.

Not one Baptist should deny this premise.

I expect anything claimed beyond that is the product of human speculation. But I am will to learn. Please list the verse or verses that say or suggest Christ had a human spirit, or a human nature, or a human mind, all suggested in post #10.

He had the mind of Christ, which if we are indwelt, we have also. Thus a divine mind. No one should claim Christ was "double minded."

 

[Ascetic X]

Please provide a link to a published site.

Note when Christ gave up His "spirit" His body died. He did not give up two spirits, one human, one divine. Since Jesus was God in the flesh, His spirit was His divine spirit.

Your views does not seem to have any basis in scripture. What verse indicates Christ had two spirits? What verse indicates the mind of Christ was not divine?

Born anew believers have the mind of Christ because they are indwelt with the Spirit of Christ.

The earthly incarnation of Christ was the Word become flesh. Human means having a body and a mind. A human body without a human mind is not fully human. Both body and mind of Christ were therefore human, otherwise the Logos did not become fully human, while remaining fully God.

Christ’s mind was a human mind that was always subjected to the will of the Father, which was vividly displayed in the anguish of Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane.

Apollonarianism heresy.

Course:Carey HIST501/Project 1/Apollarianism/Apollinarianism - UBC Wiki

 

[Ascetic X]

The premise is Christ had a divine Spirit, God incarnate, and a human body.

Not one Baptist should deny this premise.

I expect anything claimed beyond that is the product of human speculation. But I am will to learn. Please list the verse or verses that say or suggest Christ had a human spirit, or a human nature, or a human mind, all suggested in post #10.

He had the mind of Christ, which if we are indwelt, we have also. Thus a divine mind. No one should claim Christ was "double minded."

Mind / soul is where the will resides. Jesus, being fully human and fully God, had a human mind / soul with a human will that was subjected to the will of God the Father.

If Jesus did not have a human will, He would not have declared that His will was set aside so He could do the Father’s will.

Christ was not double minded. He had one human mind that was totally loyal and in subjection to the Father’s mind.

This hypostatic union has been the doctrine of orthodox mainstream Christianity since your Apollonarianism theory was condemned as heresy in 381 AD.

John 6:38

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

 

[Van]

The earthly incarnation of Christ was the Word become flesh. Human means having a body and a mind. A human body without a human mind is not fully human. Both body and mind of Christ were therefore human, otherwise the Logos did not become fully human, while remaining fully God.

Christ’s mind was a human mind that was always subjected to the will of the Father, which was vividly displayed in the anguish of Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane.

Apollonarianism heresy.

Course:Carey HIST501/Project 1/Apollarianism/Apollinarianism - UBC Wiki

I asked for scripture and you provide human conjecture.

Jesus was fully human physically, and fully God spiritually.

Jesus came in the "flesh."

You are "defining" came in the flesh, as coming with a human spirit. Fiddlesticks.

Scripture says Jesus was tempted in every way humans are. It does NOT say He had a fallen or unfallen human spirit. Christ's mind had the same characteristic of a human mind in order to be tempted Therefore the claim Christ needed a human spirit/soul in order to be fully human is just man-made conjecture, with no support in scripture.

 

[Ascetic X]

I asked for scripture and you provide human conjecture.

Jesus was fully human physically, and fully God spiritually.

Jesus came in the "flesh."

You are "defining" came in the flesh, as coming with a human spirit. Fiddlesticks.

Scripture says Jesus was tempted in every way humans are. It does NOT say He had a fallen or unfallen human spirit. Christ's mind had the same characteristic of a human mind in order to be tempted Therefore the claim Christ needed a human spirit/soul in order to be fully human is just man-made conjecture, with no support in scripture.

If the mind of Jesus was not human, He could not be tempted. A human body on its own cannot be tempted. Because His mind was human, it had to grow in wisdom.

Luke 2:52

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

The human mind of Jesus had its own will, separate from God the Father’s will, but in subjection to it.

John 6:38

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

 

[Van]

Mind / soul is where the will resides. Jesus, being fully human and fully God, had a human mind / soul with a human will that was subjected to the will of God the Father.

If Jesus did not have a human will, He would not have declared that His will was set aside so He could do the Father’s will.

Christ was not double minded. He had one human mind that was totally loyal and in subjection to the Father’s mind.

This hypostatic union has been the doctrine of orthodox mainstream Christianity since your Apollonarianism theory was condemned as heresy in 381 AD.

John 6:38

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Please try to support all these conjectures from scripture.

Do not tell me He only had a human spirit soul as He had the mind of Christ, the same mind we have access to when indwelt. And do not tell me He had two minds/spirits because He had only one. Luke 23:46

For example, you cited John 6:38 which says Jesus came to do the will of Him that sent Him. Would a human spirit/soul know the will of God the Father, or would the Second Person of the Trinity?

If the mind of Jesus was not human, He could not be tempted. A human body on its own cannot be tempted. Because His mind was human, it had to grow in wisdom.

Luke 2:52

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Once again you make a claim without support, just another human conjecture. You say Jesus could NOT be tempted without a human spirit. But just as we were created in the likeness of God, sharing some of His characteristics, God incarnate could be tempted.

Now address the fact that Jesus only had ONE spirit! Please do NOT continue to ignore scripture in favor of human conjecture.

Yes Jesus increased in knowledge. This was accomplished by God emptying Himself of some of His characteristics to become God incarnate. How could He be tempted or tested with putting off study if He already knew everything. And by the way, why did He not know the time of His return. Your arguments seem to fall apart under study.

 

[Ascetic X]

Apollonarianism, the theory that Jesus did not have a human mind, was rejected as heresy at the Council of Constantinople in 381 because it meant Jesus was not fully human.

John 14:10

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

[Van]

Apollonarianism, the theory that Jesus did not have a human mind, was rejected as heresy at the Council of Constantinople in 381 because it meant Jesus was not fully human.

John 14:10

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Once again, the FACT Jesus had only ONE spirit is not addressed. The fact that in Church history, people have added to scripture is not in dispute.

Anyone can define a word or phrase and claim it must mean this or that. Calvinism claims to be spiritually dead in sins means the person cannot seek God but scripture says many seek the Narrow door. To say Jesus could NOT be tempted unless He had a human spirit/soul is just human conjecture with NO actually support anywhere in scripture.

And John 14:10 does not indicate the fullness of the Godhead does NOT dwell in Jesus. Colossians 2:9

 

[Van]

The premise is Christ had a divine Spirit, God incarnate, and a human body.

Not one Baptist should deny this premise.

I expect anything claimed beyond that is the product of human speculation. But I am willing to learn.

Please list the verse or verses that say or suggest Christ had a human spirit with a human nature and a human mind, all suggested in post #10.

He had the mind of Christ, which if we are indwelt, we have also. Thus a divine mind. No one should claim Christ was "double minded."

Christ experienced all the needs and desires of the flesh, being tested in every way we are. Yet He had only ONE spirit.