Tongues as Evidence

[Lorelei]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:
This is not a trap question, just honestly asking. Is there any where in the bible where the gift of interpretatioin was used?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the book of Acts the gift of tongues was used, it was just not "Called" the gift. Those tongues were "interpreted" two out of the 3 times. It doesn't say they had a "gift" but neither did it call any of the gifts of the Spirit a "gift". The apostles worked many miracles (which is a gift), they healed many (which is a gift), they spoke in tongues (which is a gift) it just doesn't mention that it was indeed a gift. So...yes, interpretation was practiced.

There is no other place where you will find the "gift" of interpretation used just as you will not find anywhere else in the NT that the gift of tongues was used. We just know that it was supposed to be that way because of the instruction given to us about the gift of tongues and the gift of interpretation.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1 Corinthians 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church . 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[DHK]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:

DHK you have yet to see the blessing in being obedient to Scripture. What you call works We call obeideince.
---On what basis do you make that judgment?

DHK, of course salvation comes by faith alone. What if we had no faith where would we be? It seems as if you think that one can just believe that Jesus is, and that is all there is too it. The bible tells us that the devils believe and tremble.
---If what you say is true (that you believe salvation comes by faith alone), then why do the United Pentecostals, and those like-minded believe you must be both baptized and speak in tongues as an evidence of your salvation? Salvation is by faith. It is not by baptism; nor is it by speaking in tongues; nor are these the evidences of being saved. By that I mean to say that one cannot declare, for example, that one is not saved on the basis that he has not been baptized.
You confuse saving faith (which includes repentance), and intellectual faith that is spoken of in James of the devil. Yes he knows of God's existence but has not savingly believed, or repented.
You also confuse the initial faith that one puts in Christ at the time of salvation, and the faith needed to grow and walk with Christ day by day. "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

What good is your faith if your not going to use it? God gave you a talent, and if you dont make an increase with it he is going to take it from you and give it to someone else.
---The truth is faith is not quantatitive. It is not something you put in a bottle and put in your pocket and carry around with you to use at any convenient moment. Faith is confidence (1John 5:14). I develop confidence in my relationship with God as I spend time with him in prayer and in the Word. I develop confidence in my friends the same way--by spending time with them and finding out who they are. How much time do you spend with God finding out who He is? How much confidence (faith) can you put in Him when you come to Him in prayer?
DHK
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I appreciate Lorelei's posts and agree with her on the "gift of interpretation."

 

[ONENESS]

Lorelie, did we or did we not already reply a couple of times? Where did it go? Oh well, Guess i will repost.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Acts 4:12 “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
Acts 10:43 “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”

Faith in Christ = Salvation.

Faith in Christ + Baptism = nothing

Faith in Christ + Speaking in tongues = nothing

Faith in Christ + Good Works = nothing

Faith in Christ + Second Blessing = nothing


FAITH IN CHRIST = SALVATION

Faith in Christ + nothing = salvation

Have you done your arithmetic lately?
DHK <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Faith + Repentance = Nothing ????????
hmmm... better learn how to add Dhk.

So what if I have faith in Christ but never experience the New Birth.

What if i Have faith and never repent?

What if i have faith and never pray?

What if I have fiath and never teach or share?

Like I said earlier, our faith is going to motivate us to do these things. Without Faith in Jesus you cannot have faith in what he says. So it makes the scipture correct when they say you are saved by faith.

You can have faith in Jesus and still miss heaven.

If we have accepted what Christ has for us then we have been given a talent. We have knowlege of the truth. What happens if you dont use your talent? It gets taken away from you and you get cast out.

I know i got off subject but just thought I would add that.

What happend to the first one anyways?

Lorelie I got your last post but still dont know hwere it got to?

 

[ONENESS]

ok now it is back, what happend? LOL

 

[Lorelei]

ONENESS, I am lost, did you respond to my post or just DHKs? Are all the posts here? I thought I posted in another forum earlier and it disappeared. Is there something funky going on???


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:
[QB]So what if I have faith in Christ but never experience the New Birth.

What if i Have faith and never repent?

What if i have faith and never pray?

What if I have fiath and never teach or share?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then it wasn't true faith. Faith without works is dead. (James 2:26) If you aren't a doer of the word then you are deceiving yourself. (James 1:22)

The things you listed FOLLOW faith. They aren't requirements, but they will follow it if it was true faith. Do you see the difference?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Faith alone is all takes, yet we are warned that not everyone who "claims" to have faith is truly of God. It is by their fruits that we can know if they are false teachers or not. Not by their gifts. If it takes an "extra" blessing or baptism, then the verses in Ephesians are false.

Back to the subject:

The Bible never says that one tongue is a gift and another is the evidence. You can't use verses that are talking about the gift to say it is the evidence. As I pointed out the gifts "demonstrated" in Acts were gifts, yet they didn't say "this is a 'gift' of the Spirit", they just used them. We are later instructed how to use those gifts. If the gift was different then another kind of tongue, Paul would have clarified. Or somewhere someone would have clarified. Don't you think?

~Lorelei

 

[TGC77536]

I will continue to believe in the Gift until someone can show me otherwise. I believe it is a Gift and not a requirement to be saved but, I will take exception to any idea that because I believe in or speak in tongues I am wrong unless there is scripture that can tell me so. I am not trying to convert anyones ideologies or beliefs, only to strengthen my own. I appreaciate the opportunity to discuss this subject inteligently with the God loving Church body of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[DHK]

TGC77536:
Please answer these questions:

1. When you speak in tongues what language do you speak in?
2. If you speak in a church does someone interpret? If so in what language?
3. In the church you attend do women speak in tongues?
4. From Scripture can you tell me the purpose of tongues?
5. When Paul lists the spiritual gifts in 1Cor.12:28-31 in order of importance (firstly, secondarily, thirdly, etc.), why does he place the gift of tongues at the very bottom of the list as if it is the least important of all the gifts?
6. Why does Paul say that he would rather speak with five words of understanding than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue?
7. What evidence can you bring to this discussion that tongues are Biblically for today, and that the gift of tongues that is spoken today is the same gift that was given in the age of the Apostles?

Waiting to hear your answers,
DHK

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DHK:
TGC77536:
Please answer these questions:

1. When you speak in tongues what language do you speak in?
2. If you speak in a church does someone interpret? If so in what language?
3. In the church you attend do women speak in tongues?
4. From Scripture can you tell me the purpose of tongues?
5. When Paul lists the spiritual gifts in 1Cor.12:28-31 in order of importance (firstly, secondarily, thirdly, etc.), why does he place the gift of tongues at the very bottom of the list as if it is the least important of all the gifts?
6. Why does Paul say that he would rather speak with five words of understanding than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue?
7. What evidence can you bring to this discussion that tongues are Biblically for today, and that the gift of tongues that is spoken today is the same gift that was given in the age of the Apostles?

Waiting to hear your answers,
DHK<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One more time DHK.

He that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks mysteries to God. Do you agree or disagree?

He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies him self. Do you agree or disagree?

The one who prophesies is greater than the one that speaks in tongues. DO you agree or disagree?

If there is a interpreter then they both have the same importance, Do you agree of disagree?

Do you agree that if someone spaeks in an unknown tongue they should pray to interpret?

All i need on those questions is a yes or no answer. I dont need you to right me a paragraph for each answer. Please just "Yes or No"

Thanks

 

[Lorelei]

ONENESS,

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1 Corinthains 12:4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[1] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[2] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do these verses tell us that not everyone will speak in tongues, yes or no?

~Lorelei

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: Lorelei ]

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
ONENESS,



Do these verses tell us that not everyone will speak in tongues, yes or no?

~Lorelei

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: Lorelei ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it does.

Now we have to establish if there is a diffrence b/t the gift of tongues and an unknown tongue.

 

[MEE]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TGC77536:
I will continue to believe in the Gift until someone can show me otherwise. I believe it is a Gift and not a requirement to be saved but, I will take exception to any idea that because I believe in or speak in tongues I am wrong unless there is scripture that can tell me so. I am not trying to convert anyones ideologies or beliefs, only to strengthen my own. I appreaciate the opportunity to discuss this subject inteligently with the God loving Church body of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi TGC, let me ask you a question, if I may? When you received the "Gift" did you pray for the "Gift of the Holy Ghost" or did you pray for "divers kinds of tongues" that is talked about in the 12th chapter of 1 Cor.?

MEE

 

[Kathy]

Ok, those of you that speak in tongues, why not be missionaries to other countries? I mean, if you have the gift, use it to spread the Gospel. Go to Africa, Egypt, Tazmania, where ever. USE your gift where it will make a difference, not where all people present ALL speak the same language...makes no sense.

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[Don]

MEE, when did the Ethiopian eunuch get saved?

 

[DHK]

“He that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks mysteries to God. Do you agree or disagree?”
---Agreed, however this was a rebuke not permission to speak in tongues. Complete the whole verse please:
1 Cor. 14:2 “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” “No man understands him.” Don’t do it. It can’t be understood. It is a gift given to the church, not to individuals.

”He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies him self. Do you agree or disagree?”
---Agreed. Again, take the whole verse in its context:
1Cor.14: 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
Here we see again that it is a rebuke to the individual, not an encouragement to speak in tongues. Prophesy is encouraged because tongues FAILS to edify the church.

“The one who prophesies is greater than the one that speaks in tongues. DO you agree or disagree?”
---Agreed, tongues have passed away.

”If there is a interpreter then they both have the same importance, Do you agree of disagree?”
---Disagree. Tongues was the least important gift put at the bottom of the list of gifts given by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:28-31.

”Do you agree that if someone spaeks in an unknown tongue they should pray to interpret?”
---No, if someone speaks in an unknown tongue today they should stop immediately for it is not of God! Should they pray to interpret. No, they shouldn’t be speaking in the first place, and if they were following the Biblical pattern they would only be speaking in a local church, with another person interpreting, both would be men, never women, and always in a language known to others.

”All i need on those questions is a yes or no answer. I dont need you to right me a paragraph for each answer. Please just "Yes or No"”
---yes or no won’t do when Scriptures are pulled out of context.
DHK

 

[ONENESS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>”Do you agree that if someone spaeks in an unknown tongue they should pray to interpret?”
---No, if someone speaks in an unknown tongue today they should stop immediately for it is not of God! Should they pray to interpret. No, they shouldn’t be speaking in the first place, and if they were following the Biblical pattern they would only be speaking in a local church, with another person interpreting, both would be men, never women, and always in a language known to others. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow that is a pretty bold answer! I wonder what Mary and all the other women that were up in the upper room that spoke in tongues would have to say about that?

Acts 1:13. And when they were come in * , they went up * into an UPPER ROOM, where abode * both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas,Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes,and Judas the brother of James.

14. These all continued * with one accord in prayer and supplication, WITH THE WOMEN, AND MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS[/b], and with his brethren.

ACTS 2:1. And when the day of Pentecost was fully come * , THEY WERE ALL with one accord in one place.

2. And suddenly there came * a sound from heaven as of a rushing * mighty wind, and it filled * all the house where they were * sitting * .

3. And there appeared * unto them cloven * tongues like as of fire, and it sat * upon EACH OF THE

4. AND THEY WERE ALL FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST AND BEGAN TO SPEAK WITHOTHER TONGUES, AS THE SPIRIT GAVE THEM UTTERANCE

But your right, They probably did not speak in tongues. The bible just says that so it could fool all of us Apostolics.

And your right, when the bible says Women, it probably meant men. Silly us, What were we thinking? God must have gotten mixed up for the first time in how many years?

LOL, Im just haveing a little bit of fun DHK. So dont take it serious. I like you dude. Take care, God bless

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: ONENESS ]

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: ONENESS ]

 

[Overdose]

Acts 2:38-39

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
KJV
Iam no theology major..(not even sure if I spelled it right) but this sounds like to me its a promise of the holy ghost in baptism, and indwelling of to everyone who is a believer.
peace,
OD

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: ovrdose ]

 

[Don]

Just to muddy things up, and because we're probably going to get shut down pretty soon for going over the 3 page limit....

Is the Holy Ghost God? If so, is the gift of God and the gift of the Holy Spirit the same thing?

And Oneness, in all seriousness, DHK is just echoing what Paul told us about the matter in 1 Cor 14:34. If that's a problem, then your problem is with the Bible, not with DHK.

 

[MEE]

posted February 22, 2002 12:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“The one who prophesies is greater than the one that speaks in tongues. DO you agree or disagree?”
---Agreed, tongues have passed away.

”Do you agree that if someone spaeks in an unknown tongue they should pray to interpret?”
---No, if someone speaks in an unknown tongue today they should stop immediately for it is not of God! Should they pray to interpret. No, they shouldn’t be speaking in the first place, and if they were following the Biblical pattern they would only be speaking in a local church, with another person interpreting, both would be men, never women, and always in a language known to others.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DHK, how can you say such a thing? The Lord left His Spirit and nine spiritual gifts to His Church and you say that one of them has passed away? When? Why would He remove it?

They received the Holy Ghost, for the first time, (Acts 2:4) and they spoke in tongues, including Mary and the other women, as ONENSESS quoted. Peter said, (Acts 2:39) For the promise (Holy Ghost) is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, EVEN AS MANY AS THE lORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.

Acts 2:4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

I don't see where it has changed.

Don't you agree that He is still calling souls to salvation? How can you say that tongues have passed away?

Even if you don't believe it is a salvational issue, you don't have to say that it is not of God.

MEE

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Thru our inner-city ministry, we have seen drunks, prostitutes, drug addicts, & entire families won over to biblical Christianity. And you know what ? Not one tongue. Not one. Why ? Are these people not really saved ? Are we not saved ? What are we doing wrong ? All the visitors to our church that have fallen on their knees in tears, & accepted Christ right there, & NO TONGUES. Why ?

 

[Don]

MEE, when did the Ethiopian eunuch get saved?