Hello again Don:
Now back to the subject at hand TONGUES AS EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
1. Tongues as evidence of the Holy Spirit?
-You Betcha'
2. Tongues as evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit? - No
I'm sorry my fellow christians who believe this way on the second question because ----
well, I don't want to answer this because those who believe this way, the 2d question, will only get upset and I do not want that. I've had to listen to the ridicule to many times, so let's see what God's word says and we all might learn something to add to our Christian journey in life.
- Let's look at Matt 28:19, Mark 16:15, Luke 24:47, Acts 1:8. Do you see anything these three have in common besides preaching salvation and baptising and signs and wonders? Yes, Go into all the world, not just Jerusalem, Judaea, and Samaria but as Jesus said the uttermost parts of the earth.
But there was one thing they needed and what was it? Holy Spirit Power. Why? Try doing the gifts without the power - Good Luck.
Gift of the Holy Spirit.
Notice something, the Gift is not the Holy Spirit the gift is Power.
Don't get me wrong, I know he takes up residence when born again. (Holy Spirit)
Think of it this way. You get a gift from a friend you don't get your friend even though he is understood to be your friend.
Look at spiritual gifts:
Gift of healing, Gift of Miracles, Gift of Tongues, gift of word of knowledge etc...
What Gift of healing is the Lord going to use me for? Possibly to pray for a cancer patient that they might receive their healing, pray for somebody who has aids that they might receive their healing. You see there are different healings God manifest through his Spirit and so on with the other Gifts. When you say GIFT that covers alot.
Look at what Jesus said in ACTS 1:8
You shall receive what? Power or Holy Ghost? which one do you suppose? They are one in the same 1 Cor 12:8, 9, 11.
Notice what Jesus says Holy Ghost comes upon. In the Old testament Holy Spirit came upon 1 Sam 10:6, deals with Saul, but Saul also lost that Spirit 1 Sam 16:14 and was given to David 1 Sam 16:13. You see when Jesus came to earth he made a promise. Look at John 14:15,16. See what Jesus said, He said The comformter (Holy Spirit) would what? abide, (Continue) with who? You, if you believe. What makes you a beleiver? Is it, well I heard about a good man named Jesus, how he healed people, etc...... That won't cut it. I know stories about Columbus but I can't believe every thing I read about Him and that certainly doesn't make me a believer. I wasn't there when Jesus died either so I can't prove that he ever did die on the cross now can I? So what makes me a believer that he did die? THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Look at the v20 in John. Do you see it Jesus knows just hearing stories ain't going to convince anybody but stories mixed with the power of the Holy Spirit will do the job. Don, I'm not saying you don't understand what the Holy Spirit is I'm saying all of this for the climax. I read over these last few lines and I Kinda made it sound like you don't understand how the Holy Spirit works but I know better and don't mean anything toward you personnally.
Back to John 14:16 continuing on in the verse. He said the comformter would be with you for how long? Forever. Forever is forever.
Do you see the difference between old testament and new testament Spirit. The spirit did not stay on them forever.
It seems like it didn't take long, in the Old Testament for you to mess up and lose it and leave you as an ORPHAN John 14:18.
Look at Saul cry like a baby when God stopped talkng to him 1 Sam 28:5,6 and 1Sam 28:15-20. Now David did some things too. Look at what David says in Psalm 51:11
Why did David say this? because this was the account of Bathsheba and David didn't forget what God did to Saul. He was quick to repent but still paid a price. Another interesting (rabbit trail) point. In the Old testament The Tabernacle was symbolic for a christian body where God's spirit resides today, The Prophet was God's Mouthpiece, and the priest was Gods' mediator for man and now the Holy Spirit takes the place of all of them. You don't need a priest anymore because we go by the Spirit through Jesus (who is our high priest)before Gods throne you don't have to just have a prophet anymore because God can talk to you by the Spirit and the Spirit is in you, the temple. Don, I know you probably already know this.
Now continuing on the discussion in Acts 1:8
What does it mean when it says come upon?
Acts 3:19
Now they did not know that they would speak in tongues. What did they know? That they had to preach to the WORLD, follow me charasmatics. Jesus gave them marching orders to preach but they had to wait for something. What was it? The language they were to have to speak with for the marching orders they were given. He said preach to the world. Remember there were 120 people there not just the 12. Has it been done away with? I don't beleive so . Azusa street episodes and other instances. I've always wandered the language I speak in isn't for the mission field. I have prayed in tongues and sometimes I feel I'm praying in a different dialect. Come on tongue talkers you know you have experienced it a time or two. Read the stories of Azusa street can you relate, I can.
The rushing mighty wind in v.2 relates to the Holy Spirit. Look at John 3:8.
So what happened exactly on the Day of Pentecost. THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME TO THIS EARTH FOR MAN TO HAVE IF HE WOULD BELIEVE in Jesus. So what was dialect tongues? It was a manifestation that the HOLY SPIRIT was now here on this earth for man to have forever if he received Jesus Christ. Just imagine for a minute those Disciples in that room.
When they spoke in tongues I'll bet you they were in AW. You know why? Peter was probably sittin telling those people, WOW! what other things can this Holy Spirit bring about "you know what old Joel said there John, that his Spirit would be poured out, but you know John I didn't know it could be like this" I'm not saying Peter told the apostle John this, I'm just saying it Humorously. I believe God was showing Humanity that Day, Today starts a new day and from henceforth the rules have changed .
God showed through his disciples what the Holy Spirit will do in each of our lives if we will obey. This world that we live in operates by money. All the kingdoms in the Book of Daniel have fallen except the New World order that is coming but what other Kingdom has not fallen either? TRADING kingdom, which is supported by money which you must have to operate, to live in this society we have today. Now Gods kingdom is different you only need to turn your back on this worldly system and enter Jesus' system and the currency is HOLY GHOST currency. There is no way you will survive without HIS currrency in your life as a christian. Rom 8:10-16. (rabbit trail) The antichrist will say that if you do not take his mark that you will not buy, sell, or trade in his system. How could this be? How can a man do such a thing as to controll the buying and selling of things. We, as America, do, along with other nations. You might say how? What did we do to Saadam Hussien, Moleshovic in Yugoslavia, to Pakistan and India, etc....
WE PUT ECONOMIC SANCTIONS ON THE COUNTRIES WHO DID NOT ABIDE BY OUR RULES OF LIVING IN THIS WORLD. Could this have happened in the Past?of course, but not a scale or magnitude it could today. Is this what the antichrist has up his sleeve. If you don't abide with my dictations you will suffer by starvation. Just food for thought.
Back to the subject. God was showing us with this one manifestation by what you can expect when entering his kingdom. Look at Acts 2:38-41. Why do I need this gift of the holy spirit or power of the Holy Spirit acts 17:28, Rom 8:
Now we here people say that in order for you to verify that you just received the holy ghost, at the moment, you should speak in tongues, that is false. The statement should say this, At the moment that I saw Jesus, by his pulling of my inner man and I invited him in my life that is when I received his spirit (not all fillings though)and entered into his domain and his blessings and chastenings. Now Peter said that they would receive if they only believed. I dont' recall anywhere that the disciples asked for the Baptism of The Holy Ghost. Why would we ask when Jesus say you will get. It is a gift. I don't ask for gift , I receive when I believe. I do recall them asking Jesus for his Kingdom to be set up. Would you say it would be Ok to ask for a fresh annointing or another filling.? Of course it's Ok but God I believe does it his way . He tells us to ask for gifts but you don't get them all it is according to the purpose that you were called. (1 Cor 12)
So how does tongues work?
When you got saved you were now at the moment in the Kingdom (spiritual) of Christ and when you entered that kingdom tongues, healings, etc...etc...etc.... is now at your fingertips but only according to purpose and design that God has for you.
Gal 3:27 & Gal 4:1-9 Notice v.1 He says your an heir when you first get saved even until you die but as long as you stay in pampers you will be like a slave and don't even know that you can have what an heir can have
(though he be lord of all)
V2 self explanatory
v3 That verse pertains to christians today
the rest is self explanatory.
Hebrews 5:9-14 self explanatory
People ask how Do I see God's kingdom come to past in their life (manifestations). 2 Tim 2:20-26. When God uses you in every day life at work, school, church,etc.... you cannot help but see God's manifestations.
Alot of people have a problem with tongues and it is understandable but I believe if a person gets serious about it and will spend more time with people who do speak in tongues and ask questions I believe God will release there prayer language or Dialect tongue whatever the case may be.
Let me tell you now how I received my tongue.
I had been trying for over a month to really comprehend this tongues thing. Is it Baptism or what? My mother spoke in tongues when I was a child living in Arkansas. I remember sitting at the supper table and we all bowed our heads to pray for supper when all of a sudden my mother started praying in tongues. Now that was the first time I had ever heard that before and being kids I was starting to Laugh at that jibber jabber not knowing what it was. My mother sat there and begin to cry. I asked Mom what was the matter, along with my other siblings there at the time. She said to us. She said that there was something wrong with My Dad and My other Brother. They had went to Alabama to look for house to buy and my brother drove his own vehicle because he was looking for a job while Dad used his vehicle to look for a house.
On their way back from Alabama to Ark my brother was driving behind my fathers' vehcile and when my father did not see my brother in the rear veiw miirror he turned around and went back. Do you know what happened? My brother fell asleep behind the wheel and went off a small creek bridge into the water upside down. Now luckily he kicked out the front windshield and got out but the truck was totalled by the insurance company.
That really happened. God did not translate every thing that took place he just interpreted. My mother begin to pray and a peace came over her that was so weird to us kids at the time. We received a phone call from my Dad that confirmed not the wreck to us but that God Had told my mother that there had been trouble. Why does he do it? I don't know and I don't care ,I just believed.
Back to how I received Tongues.
I would drive home from work and would make the most ridiculus sounds out of my mouth you would ever hear. I would start gargling, just the most scenile gestures you could imagine and then I would ask God to help me whenever he was ready but it didn't work but I kept on trying to no avail. Then went and wasted alot of money on tapes and books you name it I tried it but to no avail.
Then I thought like alot of people who are trying to speak in tongues that I wasn't saved and that didn't work. You might say that is ridiculous but so is washing yourself in a mudhole seven times to be healed or getting Jesus' spittle mixed with
dirt so a man could see. What would you do to receive something from God even though you might not understand? Most people criticize when they see you failing.
After I exhausted everything humanly possible with prayer I quit. Then about 1 week later we had a special guest speaker who came and spoke concerning tongues.
I was not interested anymore because I was so frustrated but God wasn't through yet.
Now he basically spoke why we as christians should not abandon our prayer language and I sat there and said to myself that's easy for you to say because I don't even
have a prayer language to abandon.
In the meantime while I was over there having a pity party for myself my wife jumped up went down to the front. It freaked me out. She didn't even give him a chance to give an alter call. She told me later what she said to him. That she didn't even speak in tongues and how we both had been struggling with this. He sat my wife down and son it wasn't even5 minutes and my wife was speaking in tongues and I was freaking out trying to figure it out and couldn't. She walked back to where I was sitting with tears in her eyes and told me that it ain't what you think. I didn't know what she meant by that I was to busy watching her speak in tongues. How are you doing that? I kept asking myself.
That pastor came back to where I was sitting (I'm not telling you a lie Don, I am very serious) And asked me if I would go back to the pastors office with him and my wife. The whole time my wife is speaking in tongues. He pulled out this piece of paper and asked me to read it. You know what it was? reasons why I didn't speak in tongues.
the main one I remember was "Its embarrasing to try to speak in tongues because people will look at you funny". Wouldn't you agree with that reason. People would say, "I wouldn't be embarrassed if God was in it" yes you people would. People can't even live as an example for Jesus at their workplace how much more would it be for them to speak in tongues. It's easier to make fun of tongues than it is to pursue tongues.
Well back to the point. He asked me to bow my head and I did. He laid his hands on my head and asked the Lord to remove the devil that was coming against my mind. For the people that don't understand that. The thought processes that I was having toward all this tongue speaking. The devil will try to put these silly thought processes in your mind and he will succeed if you allow him. The devil cannot do anything unless you allow him. He was not praying for the devil to come out of me he was simpling praying to God to put an halt against the Devil's devices. The devil will put devices in your life to keep you from having kingdom benifits. I hear alot of people say that healing is even done away with. That's one of his devices. Say it long enough and it'll be true.
The prayer was over, nothing happened and My wife was still speaking tongues and I was stilled confused. He prayed again along with my wife. This time (I'm telling the truth here Don) I asked God how are they doing this and as soon as I did, just as soon as I did the Lord gave me word in the spirit---------It's 11:30 here and I'm tired but Don I have to tell you people this-------
now Don the word he gave me was (I'll try to spell it ) Kokahmia. You might say is this tongues? No it was not tongues. You might say how do you know it was not tongues? because the word came from my mind (Intelectually) You will not speak in tongues with an intelectual word that you make up, you will speak from the spirit not your mind (I hope I haven't lost you yet, it is hard to explain spirit in english words)
The best example I can give is
Lets say you want to scare your child.
Well, you get behind the door and the child walks by and you jump out say RAAAAAAAWWWWWW or Boooooo or EEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKK whatever you do, you say it to scare them. Correct?
Your mind said scare them but your spirit said RAAAAAWWWWWWWWWW ,BOOOOOOOOOO, EEEEEEEEE
Don you know what? That word or whatever you want to call it is not understandable on the earth or is not in the dictionary.
You simply thought it with the intelect and performed it with the spirit of your being.
Ex.2 You pull up to Burger King and place your order. Well the girl messes it up (Your order) What do we do? we usually will sigh with a grunt noise and then say bla,bla,bla.(whatever you say when you get mad because they can't get your order correct) That sigh noise you made in the spirit it ain't english or any kind of language but you know how you felt angry. All your doing is expressing your innner man.
Now granted this still is not tongues by these examples but it is the closest way to explain it.
So kokahmia came to my intelect not spirit.
That pastor asked me what I was thinking about? I told him that word kept coming to my mind and he said to me say it! But I told him that I didn't think that was tongues and he said so what! Now say it. So I did . That was all that happened. Kokahmia, Kokahmia, Kokahmia and on and on and on (I sounded Like a stuck record) Did I say any new words? No. My wife still speaking in tongues and I got my baby word Kokahmia going for me. It was silly to me with that word. That was all that happened that evening in church. On the way home I was driving the car and my wife still speaking in tongues and I was still alittle confused but when I got home i sat on the couch and closed my eyes and begin to say that word again (wife still speaking in tongues) Kokahmia, Kokahmia, Kokahmia while I was doing this the Lord said to me, say your own words, I said, Do What? He said Kokahmia is my word, now you say your own words. I still didn't understand until I begin to think about what he meant. Remember burger king, scaring your child? I Just started making sounds like that . Just off the wall stuff and Don all of a sudden I was saying words, that I knew from my spirit man, were tongues. Did you know I Begin to sing in tongues. The words I did not know intelectually but the harmony part or music part I did. The song was HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is the lamb of God. I know people who read this will think this is crazy but thats O.K.
Just remember the next time somebody bugs you out a certain way try to remember what your spirit reacts with. It will surprise you. As the days went by my tongue got easier and It was awesome. I can't explain it to you but when you here yourself saying big words not little jibber jabber words it is weird that it exists in you and for you.
Folks, that spirit man is wanting out so let him out. You people who speak in tongues write if you have had simmiliar instances.
Well Don, I don't know what your thinking but I hope I have shed a little light on this subject of tongues and you people who believe that you received the baptism in the Holy ghost with the evidence of tongues keep going on with christ because God can do it however he wants to do it in your life but the bottom line is you speak in tongues and I cannot say you didn't receive it that way . That's where God is so cool he knows what your after more than yourself knows but he doesn't stop shedding his spirit because we might have slight mistakes in our thinking and people who think they know exactly how God moves are always downtrodding other peoples beliefs. God help us all come to the unity of faith.
It's late here and I'm very tired.
God Bless
