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No it doesn't. One of the explanations quoted earlier was absolutely superb on this very point... did you read it?
No it doesn't. One of the explanations quoted earlier was absolutely superb on this very point... did you read it?
No it doesn't. One of the explanations quoted earlier was absolutely superb on this very point... did you read it?
Nope. That's the catch.
I would say that total corruption "makes" total unwillingness, inhospitality, antagonism,... "enmity".
The effective result is the same but my answer is no. Depravity does not result in people being "unable" to make moral judgments. Man's faculties are not defective or prevented by God from making good choices. God doesn't have to do a single thing to make man fatally, obstinately unwilling... He has to perform a miracle to free man to be willing.
You don't have to. Scripture tells us why those who do- do.
Yes man is responsible.
Yes. God's good and man's evil are mutually exclusive.
Yes.
Yes
Does that sound like someone who a) can blame God for his state or b) has any good will in him whatsoever that would cause him to reconcile himself to God?
The thing is none of the texts you cite demonstrates that man will do good or choose good. You make a great case for why man is lost, depraved, and hopeless... but you fail to show any reason why such a person would in their own goodness choose the salvation offered in Christ.
That doesn't prove otherwise and says nothing about why they did or did not believe him.
Because the preaching of the gospel is the method God chose to use.
Again, why were some persuaded while others weren't? Did God grant them understanding or were they "good" enough in and of themselves?
Again, because the gospel is the method God chose to redeem men. I didn't say that man's will and decisions were not part of the method/plan. I said that God must grant man spiritual freedom through regeneration before he will do anything good.
Because that was the experential aspect of it. Notably, the Jews were not successful, the gospel was brought to the gentiles,... and Christ's other sheep heard His voice and followed.
This same Paul wrote Romans 8, Romans 1-3, Eph 1, and many other passages that deny man's goodness and exalt God's grace. You can't divorce and create a contradiction between Paul's teachings on the involvement of man's will and his other teachings concerning election, depravity, and God's primacy in salvation.
Think about what you just claimed then reconcile it with the activities, messages, and statements of genuine calvinists like Edwards, Spurgeon, and more recently MacArthur or Piper.
Since your premise is faulty, your conclusion is likewise unwarranted.
You think "persuasive preaching" is a man's work? When you preach and someone gets saved, you think it is because YOU did something of yourself?... Or, do you rightly recognize that you have been used as an instrument by God?
No. It didn't... and I comprehend your point or else I couldn't have responded to it.
I didn't miss it. I answered it... Why do you want to start that kind of non-sense again. I thought we were having a productive discussion until just now.
Except that you are planting your own biases into what calvinists believe again rather than accepting and honestly considering what we say. I may not deserve your respect but certainly the likes of Spurgeon should. Has there been a greater preacher since Paul? I doubt it. Did he fail to call people to repentance? No. Did he recognize that his duty was to call while it was God's prerogative to motivate? Yes.
Come on Tim... Please think about what we say before responding to what you imagine we mean. Can't because they won't... not because God denies them the faculties to do so.
And this is why you've been accused more than once here of arguing with us without knowing or trying to truly understand what we believe.
Jesus Christ and Him crucified... repent and believe.
Are you insenuating that Spurgeon, Whitefield, and Edwards deceived those who fell to their knees in repentance?
I have heard even the most arminian preachers say, "Is the Spirit calling you?" The obvious answer for many unsaved in those audiences... was "no".
Faith comes by hearing the gospel... the ability to "hear" spiritually comes by the miraculous regeneration of the spirit.
Because there is none righteous, no not one. There is none that understands, there is none that seek God... there is none that do good.
Nope I didn't say that.
or that really. An adulterer may self reform for many reasons that have nothing to do with genuine repentance, salvation, obedience to God, or God's glory.
Yes. There is a significant difference between human efforts to self-justify and escape guilt and godly repentance toward the Savior.
For selfish purposes, not God glorifying ones.
He can but won't for the very same reason that he might obey his conscience and self-reform... because he loves himself and his flesh. He is a self-worshipper.
Not demonstrated by anything you have presented so far.
Nope. Not a single one says that unregenerate man possesses the goodness to do these things of themselves.
Nope... ONLY while they are under the effectual drawing of the HS.
Repentance is no more forced on a born again spirit than metabolism is forced on a new born child.
Nope. Again, people have their faculties. They are responsible. They could not rightly be condemned if they weren't called.
God gave man the capacity to make moral judgment. He is in no wise guilty when man chooses evil... but He it is by His grace and to His glory alone than any ever choose righteousness.
I know you aren't addressing me, but I thought I'd add my 10 cents (still worth only 2 cents, but adjusted for inflation).
I hate to use analogies because once you get started, people tend to focus on the analogy and not the point behind it. But I'm afraid I'll risk one anyway.
And you make God a "respecter of person" with whom he will/won't save, do you know that to have respect of persons is a "SIN"??
And you make God a "respecter of person" with whom he will/won't save</font>[/QUOTE]If it is God who makes the difference, how does that make God a respecter of persons? One person is better than another only because God made him that way. God didn't make him that way because he was better.
Wrong. God only chooses those who are "in Christ", His Son. This has nothing to do with being "good enough"
Wrong. God only chooses those who are "in Christ", His Son. This has nothing to do with being "good enough"
</font>[/QUOTE] It does if the critical difference between the saved and the lost is a decision motivated by some good within the man rather than by good placed in him specially by God.Again, if the critical difference between those who do and those who don't is an independent good decision made by them... then God is simply recognizing the merit of that choice. He is respecting them for what they have done.
However, I need to comment on one re. Ephesians 2:8, 9, which I'll post separately...