It cannot save those whom were not intended to get saved though...
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Trad-Cal Dictionary
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
worst statement i've ever read on the internet.
You must have been staying out of the Calvinism forum on here.
it's been a while
I know parts (particulars) do not believe the gospel is sufficient.
So you believe God does not intend to save some?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Mr. Mitchell,
The Gospel is not what saves a believer...Jesus does ( John 17:2 ) because they are given to Him by His Father ( John 6:65 ). The believer is saved "by" it:
" Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. " ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 )
In other words, it is the means by which a person is brought to the knowledge of His grace towards them.
God uses the preaching of His word to do many things, but towards Christ's sheep, it is used to "notify them" of their unspeakable gift of eternal life.
Best regards, sir.
Oh boy...
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Romans 1:16
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
He then clarified his statement by saying they’re saved by it.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Let's see the verse you've used, sir:
" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." ( Romans 1:16 )
It clearly says that the Gospel is the power of God unto ( up to, or to ) salvation...to everyone that believes. Those that believe include both Jews and Greeks. Are you looking at the words carefully, or are you just assuming that it states something without weighing every word?
I used to do that, too, so you're not alone, incidentally.
If you can find a passage that clearly states that the Gospel is what saves, and is not the means by which someone is brought to the knowledge of their salvation, then I will repent of my error.
May His blessings be evident in your walk with Him, sir.
Right. He said the gospel was a means to an end. That end being the Father giving the elect to the Son.
Why not just have the Father save the elect? Have the Father give to the Son the elect and not even have the need for Jesus to be crucified, dead and buried, and risen again? That's the gospel, after all.
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Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.[Hebrews 9:22] The Son died a covenant death, procuring salvation for those the Father gave Him. The gospel is the good news, letting them know what God, through the Christ, did for them. The gospel is the vehicle by which they’re saved.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Because the Gospel is used primarily to call God's elect.
In addition, the details of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ are given so that God's children may know exactly what He did to satisfy His Justice. There can be no remission of sins without blood...His blood.
EDIT:
What he said above.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Let's go back to the dictionary:
I'd like to amend this with these words, but I don't own the dictionary:
"Calvinist":
Anyone who "hears" the Gospel and believes it from the heart is one of the elect. Anyone who hears the Gospel and "believes it" with the mind is not elect. God desires for all men ( men from every tongue, tribe and nation and out of every walk of life including kings ) to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. He knows ( loves intimately ) them that are His ( 2 Timothy 2:19 ), and they will unerringly "choose" to believe Him when He calls.
Christ's sheep know Him and they follow Him....they believe because they are His sheep ( John 10:26-27 ), not to become one.
Best regards, sir.
I'd like to amend this with these words, but I don't own the dictionary:
"Calvinist":
Anyone who "hears" the Gospel and believes it from the heart is one of the elect. Anyone who hears the Gospel and "believes it" with the mind is not elect. God desires for all men ( men from every tongue, tribe and nation and out of every walk of life including kings ) to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. He knows ( loves intimately ) them that are His ( 2 Timothy 2:19 ), and they will unerringly "choose" to believe Him when He calls.
Christ's sheep know Him and they follow Him....they believe because they are His sheep ( John 10:26-27 ), not to become one.
Best regards, sir.
You are not seriously suggesting that the definition of a believer is a Calvinist, are you?Let's go back to the dictionary:
I'd like to amend this with these words, but I don't own the dictionary:
"Calvinist":
Anyone who "hears" the Gospel and believes it from the heart is one of the elect. Anyone who hears the Gospel and "believes it" with the mind is not elect. God desires for all men ( men from every tongue, tribe and nation and out of every walk of life including kings ) to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. He knows ( loves intimately ) them that are His ( 2 Timothy 2:19 ), and they will unerringly "choose" to believe Him when He calls.
Christ's sheep know Him and they follow Him....they believe because they are His sheep ( John 10:26-27 ), not to become one.
Best regards, sir.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
Monergism Classic Essays and Articles - Thomas Adams, "A Diagnosis"
Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals - Bio of Thomas Adams (1583-1652):
http://www.meetthepuritans.com/blog/meet-puritan-thomas-adams
Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals - Bio of Thomas Adams (1583-1652):
http://www.meetthepuritans.com/blog/meet-puritan-thomas-adams
Charles Spurgeon, "the Sad Plight and Sure Relief":
His text is Romans 5:6. You know, the scripture that says Christ died for the ungodly
His text is Romans 5:6. You know, the scripture that says Christ died for the ungodly
No, just another example of adjusting my Theology to fit the scriptures. Like it or not the bible tells us that faith is a gift. In this case it is a extraordinary grace-gift for a specific purpose, but a gift nevertheless. And the passage in question makes it clear all do not receive the same gifts but are given to select individuals "for the profit of all" (see verse 7).
Then you believe wrong. The atonement is sufficient for all, and the Grace of God is sufficient and efficacious to accomplish all God intends it to accomplish.
The Gospel does not save. The Gospel points toward that which saves, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Even the verse you quote says that the Gospel is the power of God TO salvation for those who believe it. But not salvation in and of itself.
Another example of conflating difference, specific, terms.