Would be very interesting to read the full Systematic Theology of Van textbook
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Traditional Baptist Beliefs
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
It is something that many in Reformed Churches have come to realize (why you have the Reforme the Reformed movements).
Look at the threads on this forum. How do Calvinists defend the parts of their faith that are not in the Bible? They look to their "popes".
@Zaatar71 even admitted this when he pointed to the need to submit to Confirmed confessions and thise men who were scattered than him.
You admit it indirectly by responding as Catholics respond when challenged.
Reformed Christians are humble enough to submit to gifted persons and leadership, to read and learn, rather than a person who is puffed up, and thinks more highly of himself than he ought to. A proud spirit does not help a person come to truth.
Proud in your humility? Not sure that works.
Yet another Calvinist with their change the subject ratchet. I am an oppressor, according to the subject changing charge, rather than a messenger of truth, presenting the gospel of Christ. God desires all people to be saved in accordance with His redemption plan. That is why Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all. That is why He tasted death for all people. That is why He became the means of reconciliation for all people. That is why His ransom bought those never to be saved, but facing swift destruction.
God chooses to credit as righteousness the faith some believers, demonstrating Soul Competency.
Many lost persons actually seek the narrow door [Christ] but do not find Him demonstrating limited spiritual ability.
Some people actually entering the kingdom are derailed and are prevented from going in, because entry is not supernaturally compelled.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The reformed brethren use scripture to support every doctrine of “their faith”, so it is simply untrue to claim what they believe is not in the Bible.
There is no rational reason not to glean biblical truth from the godly men and women that spent their lives pondering the great teachings of our Lord Jesus and His Apostles and possessed literary skills necessary to clearly explain those truths.
Compare that to others that continually start threads to “disprove” the doctrines of grace by claiming new ways to use biblical Greek or Hebrew (ignoring experts in these languages) even though they are an amateur at best and a poorly skilled reader of lexicons at worst.
This conversation is not edifying so I’m out.
Peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
From what you are saying it would seem the only ones qualified to understand the bible are those of the calvinist view. Odd that they have to change the meaning of words so it fits their theological view.
Odd how those same people are unable to understand that that view did not exist until augustine in the 4th century.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
They do "use" Scripture. But their faith is not derived from Scripture.
They choose men they agree with, they call them "godly" (here they mean God-given teachers, misinterpreting teachers given congregations). Catholics do this, calling theirs "pope".
The difference between Reformed theology and Christianity is not Scripture but instead how Scripture is viewed. Christianity views the Bible as God's Word and these words the actual teachings. Reformed theologians believe the Bible is a type of reference that their "popes" use to tell them what the Bible really teaches.
In discussions here many will point to the Bible. Reformed members give a few verses but then pages after pages of little "popes" explaining what the Bible "really" teaches.
For example, it is impossible to believe that Jesus experienced God's wrath IF belief is developed from God's Word because that heresy is nowhere in the words of God. But Reformed "popes" have determined that this had to have happened because their philosophy demands it. Reformed people simply follow these men they worship. They typically do not even understand how their cult developed.
Try reading the Bible!
Extracted and enlarged from Post 30:
"Responsible - Everyone (including the lost) is able to to God's appeals for reconciliation, because a Divine Provision will be heard and understood.
Deuteronomy 30:11-19
Matthew 23:37
Luke 8:12
Romans 2:4
Hebrews 3:7-8"
Here a case is made against the "T" of the TULIP, Total Spiritual Inability, the false doctrine that the lost are unable to understand spiritual milk, contrary to 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 where Paul spoke to immature Christians in the same way, using spiritual milk, that he did when speaking to "men of flesh," people who were not indwelt.
Moses' inspired message was spiritually dead people are to love God, thus able to love God; by obeying His word, thus able to discern the Word of God; and by "holding close" or faithfully following God, thus able to repent and strive to follow His will.
Matthew 23:37 teaches God gathers the "willing" not the unwilling. Thus some lost people are able to will to come to Christ through faith.
Luke 8:12 teaches a Satanic action is required to take away the gospel message, because otherwise the lost may believe and be saved.
Romans 2:4 teaches we should not take lightly the kind provision of God's revelation to us, and His patience in allowing humanity the time to come to repentance.
Hebrews 3:7-8 reminds us that God was provoked when those delivered out of Egypt, hardened their own hearts, when they heard and rejected God's will. God would not have been provoked if they had been unable to hear and appropriately respond.
"Responsible - Everyone (including the lost) is able to to God's appeals for reconciliation, because a Divine Provision will be heard and understood.
Deuteronomy 30:11-19
Matthew 23:37
Luke 8:12
Romans 2:4
Hebrews 3:7-8"
Here a case is made against the "T" of the TULIP, Total Spiritual Inability, the false doctrine that the lost are unable to understand spiritual milk, contrary to 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 where Paul spoke to immature Christians in the same way, using spiritual milk, that he did when speaking to "men of flesh," people who were not indwelt.
Moses' inspired message was spiritually dead people are to love God, thus able to love God; by obeying His word, thus able to discern the Word of God; and by "holding close" or faithfully following God, thus able to repent and strive to follow His will.
Matthew 23:37 teaches God gathers the "willing" not the unwilling. Thus some lost people are able to will to come to Christ through faith.
Luke 8:12 teaches a Satanic action is required to take away the gospel message, because otherwise the lost may believe and be saved.
Romans 2:4 teaches we should not take lightly the kind provision of God's revelation to us, and His patience in allowing humanity the time to come to repentance.
Hebrews 3:7-8 reminds us that God was provoked when those delivered out of Egypt, hardened their own hearts, when they heard and rejected God's will. God would not have been provoked if they had been unable to hear and appropriately respond.
To break it down logically, Soul Liberty must contain Soul Competency, and Soul Competency results in Soul Responsibility, as taught in scripture.
Thus, traditional Baptist beliefs are radically different from Particular Baptist beliefs.
Responsible - Everyone (including the lost) is able to respond to God's appeals for reconciliation, because a Divine Provision will be heard and understood.
And as a side note, those who saw Christ's miracles and rejected God will suffer more than those that only had the revelation from what God has made. Matthew 11:20-24, Luke 10:13-16
We, of course, have been shown the miracles via God's word and His witnesses, so those of us who fall into this category and are unsaved, should be saying to themselves, "Woe is me, woe is me."
Thus, traditional Baptist beliefs are radically different from Particular Baptist beliefs.
Responsible - Everyone (including the lost) is able to respond to God's appeals for reconciliation, because a Divine Provision will be heard and understood.
And as a side note, those who saw Christ's miracles and rejected God will suffer more than those that only had the revelation from what God has made. Matthew 11:20-24, Luke 10:13-16
We, of course, have been shown the miracles via God's word and His witnesses, so those of us who fall into this category and are unsaved, should be saying to themselves, "Woe is me, woe is me."
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Picture this, a person is in a locked jail cell, and the jailer calls to him and says, "you are at liberty to walk along the Atlantic City boardwalk. An hour later, the jailer says he has added time to the sentence because the person did not avail himself to the "opportunity."
Yes, that story illustrates the Calvinist take on Soul Liberty. The lost are punished for unbelief, but are unable to believe. I kid you not.
Yes, that story illustrates the Calvinist take on Soul Liberty. The lost are punished for unbelief, but are unable to believe. I kid you not.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I don’t need a lecture on understanding biblical truth from someone that believes many are saved having never heard the gospel.
It is not odd that those with the least understanding of biblical truth and church history are the loudest opponents of the doctrines of Grace.
Peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Picture this, every person on the planet is spiritually dead, unable to obey the commands of God (just like those in the OT times, under the Law were unable to obey the Law God had commanded and thus be saved)
God, in His mercy, according to the kind intention of His will, chose specific individuals to be put in a right relationship with Himself. He chose them specifically, He predestined them, He called them, He regenerated them making them able to believe, He imparted faith in them, He gave His Spirit to guide them in the truth about their sin and need for a Savior found only in Jesus, and when they responded to what He had done in their lives with faith in Jesus, God Holy Spirit indwelt them as the mark of Salvation.
Everything I just said is COMPLETELY supported by scripture.
Everything you said is supported by a man made philosophy that demands God act according to what men believe to be “fair”.
I’ll follow scripture, whether you and the rest understand it or not.
I cannot be swayed by the arguments of men. Only by scripture, rightly understood in context.
Peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@canadyjd the fact you do not even understand the word of God is evident every time you make that silly comment.
You are letting your false cavinist teachings cloud your mind. You need to trust the word of God not your beloved calvinist teachers.