Translation Comparison Charts

[Dave G]

You win.

I'll stick to what I have, you use whatever you want. I appreciate your efforts to convince me, but this subject was decided about 2 decades ago for me.




Je suis fini.
May God bless you greatly.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Either this is a translation error ( that carries over into two competing translations? ) or a manuscript problem...I think the latter.
Regardless, it changes the word "corrupt" to "peddle"...a much less serious term, and a term that isn't even related.

It's nothing to do with the manuscripts; it's a translational issue. It is the question of how to translate kapeleuo, which appears to have both the meaning of 'peddle' or to 'corrupt' or 'adulterate.' The NKJV margin has 'adulterate for gain.' Vine's Dictionary seems to support 'peddle.' 'Those to whom the apostle refers in 2:17 are such as make merchandise of souls through covetousness (cf. Titus 1:11; 2 Peter 2:3, 14-15; Jude 11:16; Ezekiel 13:19); accordingly, "hucksterizing" would be the most appropriate rendering.' Whether @John of Japan can add anything, I don't know.

 

[McCree79]

It's nothing to do with the manuscripts; it's a translational issue. It is the question of how to translate kapeleuo, which appears to have both the meaning of 'peddle' or to 'corrupt' or 'adulterate.' The NKJV margin has 'adulterate for gain.' Vine's Dictionary seems to support 'peddle.' 'Those to whom the apostle refers in 2:17 are such as make merchandise of souls through covetousness (cf. Titus 1:11; 2 Peter 2:3, 14-15; Jude 11:16; Ezekiel 13:19); accordingly, "hucksterizing" would be the most appropriate rendering.' Whether @John of Japan can add anything, I don't know.

The word is heavily associated with retailers and the abuse selling.

The TDNT (abridged) says..
:καπηλεύω kapēleúō [to peddle, trade] 1. The Greek Usage. This word means 'to engage in retail trade' and carries a nuance of trickery and avarice. In philosophy it denotes the selling of teaching for money."

The EDNT says...
καπηλεύω kapēleuō trade with; sell, offer for sale* 2 Cor 2:17: οὐ . . . καπηλεύοντες τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ. The vb. (from κάπηλος, "tradesman") plays a role in Greek polemic against the Sophists, which criticizes the marketing of spiritual and intellectual goods for profit and is concerned less with "adulteration" (Luther) than the gaining of a profit. BAGD s.v.; R. Bultmann, 2 Cor [Eng. tr., 1985) ad loc.; S. Hafemann, Suffering and the Spirit (WUNT 2/19, 1986) 103-76; Spicq, Notes I, 403-

The BDAG also supports this...
"trade in, peddle, huckster"

2 Cor. 2:17 is about people "peddling" Gods word for profit. Martin's conclusion is certainly correct. It seems the KJV has a "corrupt" rendering

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[John of Japan]

It's nothing to do with the manuscripts; it's a translational issue. It is the question of how to translate kapeleuo, which appears to have both the meaning of 'peddle' or to 'corrupt' or 'adulterate.' The NKJV margin has 'adulterate for gain.' Vine's Dictionary seems to support 'peddle.' 'Those to whom the apostle refers in 2:17 are such as make merchandise of souls through covetousness (cf. Titus 1:11; 2 Peter 2:3, 14-15; Jude 11:16; Ezekiel 13:19); accordingly, "hucksterizing" would be the most appropriate rendering.' Whether @John of Japan can add anything, I don't know.

It's not a manuscript problem. There is a difference in the mss in this verse, but it invovles "many/the rest," not "corrupt/peddle."

As for translating, I go with "huckstering." The Greek word referred to a wine seller secretly diluting and then misrepresenting his product so he could sell more. The meaning for me is that Paul opposed using the Word of God to make money (other than the freewill gifts and/or salary from God's people).

Concerning the KJV, remember that we are reading 1611 English. The KJV translators rendered the Greek word correctly. The word "corrupt" in 1611 could actually deal with huckstering, with diluting wine. Here's proof: https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=id&id=MED9845

 

[John of Japan]

I note a discussion here on "word for word." I would like to input that this term is so argued and bandied about that unless you define it, no one knows what you mean, so the two sides are talking past each other. On the "thought for thought" side it is often ridiculed (without definition), but on the "word for word" side it is also misunderstood (cf the lousy book by H. D. Williams--not a translator, not a linguist, but he wrote extensively from his ignorance: Word-For-Word Translating of the Received Texts).

Carry on--after you define your terms.

 

[Salty]

Carry on--after you define your terms.

Excellent statement

 

[Yeshua1]

" For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ." ( 2 Corinthians 2:17 )

" For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God." ( 2 Corinthians 2:17, NASB )

" For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ." ( 2 Corinthians 2:17, NKJV )




In the AV, we see "corrupt", as in "to pervert ", "make worse", "change for the worse"...opposite of "purify" or to "keep pure".
In the others, we see "peddling", which means to "sell cheaply", "promote", or simply "to sell".

Big difference.

Either this is a translation error ( that carries over into two competing translations? ) or a manuscript problem...I think the latter.
Regardless, it changes the word "corrupt" to "peddle"...a much less serious term, and a term that isn't even related.


To put it bluntly, the very verse in which Paul is stating that they were not as many who corrupt the word of God, has been corrupted when compared to the KJV.


Someone has a sense of humor, and to me, it isn't the Lord.

ALL 3 translations are saying basically the very same thing!

 

[Yeshua1]

I note a discussion here on "word for word." I would like to input that this term is so argued and bandied about that unless you define it, no one knows what you mean, so the two sides are talking past each other. On the "thought for thought" side it is often ridiculed (without definition), but on the "word for word" side it is also misunderstood (cf the lousy book by H. D. Williams--not a translator, not a linguist, but he wrote extensively from his ignorance: Word-For-Word Translating of the Received Texts).

Carry on--after you define your terms.

I would tend to see this formal translation, who try to brig over into the English transaltion as strict a word for word equivalent as in possible, but would still have some passages done in a more informal, dynamic way Dynamic translations to me would be those who seek to translation the thought patteren of process into the English, and tries to get the intended meaning into contemporary ways of describing it.

 

[Yeshua1]

In other words, no.

too bad, as both are excellent for use!

 

[Yeshua1]

It's nothing to do with the manuscripts; it's a translational issue. It is the question of how to translate kapeleuo, which appears to have both the meaning of 'peddle' or to 'corrupt' or 'adulterate.' The NKJV margin has 'adulterate for gain.' Vine's Dictionary seems to support 'peddle.' 'Those to whom the apostle refers in 2:17 are such as make merchandise of souls through covetousness (cf. Titus 1:11; 2 Peter 2:3, 14-15; Jude 11:16; Ezekiel 13:19); accordingly, "hucksterizing" would be the most appropriate rendering.' Whether @John of Japan can add anything, I don't know.

I still do not see the big difference betyween the Nas/Nkjv versions on this passage, and the Kjv, as our brother does!

 

[th1bill]

Lets take this discussion in a slightly different direction.

Which is better -
Word-for-word translation
or a phrase-by-phrase translation?

Or do they compliment each other?

I use both, heaviky, when i taught classes.

 

[Yeshua1]

I use both, heaviky, when i taught classes.

I use the Nas/Esv/194 Niv