"Tree of Liberty"

[Silverhair]

Matthew 26:52-53

Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?

Who will we trust, our gun or our Commander of the Lord's Army?

Austin look at the context in which Jesus speaks of a sword.

Mat_26:52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?

You do not need to defend me. {Jesus}

Luk_22:36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.

You do need to be able to defend yourself.

Jesus does not expect us to leave ourselves defenseless or to expect God to protect us when we put ourselves in harms way. We should trust in the Lord but we should not test Him.

 

[Conan]

You just don't like the idea of giving up your guns.

You cannot take our freedom. You cannot take our rights away! Why do you even want to do that? So you can control us? We are law abiding citizens, you have no right to enslave us. The evil one wants to take away guns from law abiding citizens. Why join evil?

 

[Reynolds]

Matthew 26:52-53

Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?

Who will we trust, our gun or our Commander of the Lord's Army?

Jesus was predestined to die. The Lord gave us guns for defense just as he gave us medicine for healing. You take any medicine? Go to Doctor?

 

[AustinC]

Jesus was predestined to die. The Lord gave us guns for defense just as he gave us medicine for healing. You take any medicine? Go to Doctor?

We are all predestined to die. God has set the hour and the place. If you live by the gun, you will die by the gun.
Medicine is given to heal. Guns are given to kill. Pretty big difference in their purpose.
It seems you have bought in to the cultural faith in guns as your protector.

 

[AustinC]

You cannot take our freedom. You cannot take our rights away! Why do you even want to do that? So you can control us? We are law abiding citizens, you have no right to enslave us. The evil one wants to take away guns from law abiding citizens. Why join evil?

You are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. The government can do what it wills. If it demands your guns, you will either disobey God and not turn in your guns, or you will obey God and turn in your guns. If you disobey, expect to be jailed or killed for your disobedience and don't expect God to protect you.

 

[AustinC]

Austin look at the context in which Jesus speaks of a sword.

Mat_26:52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?

You do not need to defend me. {Jesus}

Luk_22:36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.

You do need to be able to defend yourself.

Jesus does not expect us to leave ourselves defenseless or to expect God to protect us when we put ourselves in harms way. We should trust in the Lord but we should not test Him.

So carry some mace.

 

[Silverhair]

So carry some mace.

Do you realize how foolish you sound? You try to sound so pious. If the Lord said it was a good idea to buy a sword why do you not agree that using that proper means to defend your self is a good idea. A sword then a gun now. Equal deterrence factor.

 

[AustinC]

Do you realize how foolish you sound? You try to sound so pious. If the Lord said it was a good idea to buy a sword why do you not agree that using that proper means to defend your self is a good idea. A sword then a gun now. Equal deterrence factor.

I will point you toward the context and state that Jesus changed that command in the garden. Moreso, not one epistle or early church history shows Christians picking up the sword.
2 Corinthians 11:24-33

Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant? If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands.

Show me where Christians are commanded to take up arms against others.

 

[Conan]

You are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. The government can do what it wills. If it demands your guns, you will either disobey God and not turn in your guns, or you will obey God and turn in your guns. If you disobey, expect to be jailed or killed for your disobedience and don't expect God to protect you.

The government cannot do whatever it wants. Sounds like you have a slave mentality. Just like in the days of slavery. The government is breaking the law if it demands your guns and should never be obeyed in such a case. All Americans, and all the people on this planet should reject what you say as a slave of man. You have the mentality of a slave of men.

 

[Silverhair]

I will point you toward the context and state that Jesus changed that command in the garden. Moreso, not one epistle or early church history shows Christians picking up the sword.
2 Corinthians 11:24-33

Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant? If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands.

Show me where Christians are commanded to take up arms against others.

Your a committed pacifist and that is your right. Show me one clear scripture that says a Christian can not defend himself or their loved ones. Christ spoke against those that would use violence to get their way Mat 26:52 but He also advised people to be able to defend themselves Luk 22:36.

So context actually speaks against you view. More so the quote you gave really does not address this question. Paul may or may not have had some form of protection, the quote does not address that issue unless you read into it what you want to find.

 

[AustinC]

Your a committed pacifist and that is your right. Show me one clear scripture that says a Christian can not defend himself or their loved ones. Christ spoke against those that would use violence to get their way Mat 26:52 but He also advised people to be able to defend themselves Luk 22:36.

So context actually speaks against you view. More so the quote you gave really does not address this question. Paul may or may not have had some form of protection, the quote does not address that issue unless you read into it what you want to find.

On this you bring up the normative principle, meaning God has not given explicit command on humans defending themselves with guns. I can only point to the silence of the Apostles and the early church on use of weapons. Jesus said to put the sword away and that seems to have been followed by all the Apostles including Peter.
The obedience to government regulations still stands, but on carrying weapons I will point to Romans 14 where we hold our position for conscience sake. If you think God wants you to carry a weapon, then do so. If you don't think God wants you to carry a weapon, then do so. Let your conscience guide you.

 

[Silverhair]

On this you bring up the normative principle, meaning God has not given explicit command on humans defending themselves with guns. I can only point to the silence of the Apostles and the early church on use of weapons. Jesus said to put the sword away and that seems to have been followed by all the Apostles including Peter.
The obedience to government regulations still stands, but on carrying weapons I will point to Romans 14 where we hold our position for conscience sake. If you think God wants you to carry a weapon, then do so. If you don't think God wants you to carry a weapon, then do so. Let your conscience guide you.

Well since there were no guns at the time the bible was written then I would not expect there to be an explicit command on humans defending themselves with guns. That being said I do see that we are to be able to defend ourselves and families etc.

As to one being willing to defend ones self via a weapon that is a matter of conscience. But I must ask would you not protect your family if the need arose? I would, and I would do it with whatever means were necessary and available to me at the time.

 

[Reynolds]

So carry some mace.

The sword was the deadly weapon. A stick would be more equal to mace.

 

[Reynolds]

Do you realize how foolish you sound? You try to sound so pious. If the Lord said it was a good idea to buy a sword why do you not agree that using that proper means to defend your self is a good idea. A sword then a gun now. Equal deterrence factor.

He is a pious troll.

 

[AustinC]

Well since there were no guns at the time the bible was written then I would not expect there to be an explicit command on humans defending themselves with guns. That being said I do see that we are to be able to defend ourselves and families etc.

As to one being willing to defend ones self via a weapon that is a matter of conscience. But I must ask would you not protect your family if the need arose? I would, and I would do it with whatever means were necessary and available to me at the time.

If the need arose, I would first grab my family and leave. Best solution is observe your situation and flee the danger. Let the police take care of the criminals. If I couldn't flee, I would hope to protect the family, but ultimately I leave our lives in God's hands. God can protect us or he can ordain our deaths. This is for God to do if and when something like your scenario happened.

 

[Silverhair]

If the need arose, I would first grab my family and leave. Best solution is observe your situation and flee the danger. Let the police take care of the criminals. If I couldn't flee, I would hope to protect the family, but ultimately I leave our lives in God's hands. God can protect us or he can ordain our deaths. This is for God to do if and when something like your scenario happened.

What I see in your words is you abdicating your responsibility to protect your family. While you try to sound pious, it comes across as you just testing God. I have to ask, do you lock your doors? Do you have medical insurance? Do you visit a Dr. when your ill? If you answer yes to any of these questions then please tell us why? Do you not trust God to protect your home and health?

 

[Reynolds]

On this you bring up the normative principle, meaning God has not given explicit command on humans defending themselves with guns. I can only point to the silence of the Apostles and the early church on use of weapons. Jesus said to put the sword away and that seems to have been followed by all the Apostles including Peter.
The obedience to government regulations still stands, but on carrying weapons I will point to Romans 14 where we hold our position for conscience sake. If you think God wants you to carry a weapon, then do so. If you don't think God wants you to carry a weapon, then do so. Let your conscience guide you.

Did God say He was the same Yesterday, Today, and forever? You can't read the Old lol Testament battles where He ordered killing and tell me He does not condone violence. You remember Him ordering All women, Children, and infants killed?

 

[Conan]

Bows and arrows, spears, clubs, flint lock rifles, black powder, Armalite rifles, swords, knives, pistols are all weapons. Mankind has always had them and always will. There are those that wish to control them and deny them to the law abiding people so they can have control over the law abiding people. The Romans denied their British subjects arms, and after the Romans abandoned them they could not fight off the Picts, Angles , Saxons, Jutes and many other tribes. Hitler outlawed firearms to the German people and we see what a wonderful idea that was. Gun control is about tyrants and their tyranny, plain and simple. They must be resisted and defeated at all costs. We've already lost all the freedom we can stand. Anymore and we won't be free. Won't be able to resist tyranny like slaves. Slaves are not allowed to own firearms. Never give into them. Slavery is the devils work, plain and simple.

 

[Conan]

Did God say He was the same Yesterday, Today, and forever? You can't read the Old lol Testament battles where He ordered killing and tell me He does not condone violence. You remember Him ordering All women, Children, and infants killed?

Aye, none would deny King David weapons, both before and after he became King. No one would deny the Israelites weapons. God supported them in their battles. David did not deny his countrymen the right to bear arms. Those that do are supporting evil, plain and simple.

 

[Conan]

Well since there were no guns at the time the bible was written then I would not expect there to be an explicit command on humans defending themselves with guns. That being said I do see that we are to be able to defend ourselves and families etc.

The weapons of the day were spears, clubs, swords, axes, bow and arrows, and a host of unnamed weapons. Slings, stones, javelins. Had they had firearms in those days they would have used them.