Trump all out war against Iran guarantees defeat of America

[Conan]

You do a lot of speculation about what people you disagree with believe.

You have drank the cool-aide, my friend, and washed it down with a great pile of cowpie which you regurgitate every time you post.

I’ll make a deal with you. Don’t mention me or quote me and I’ll leave your thread

Peace to you

Oh I missed this. You do not have to leave the thread. It's here to comment on. But try to see through the false narrative given to you by the world.

 

[Conan]

No doubt. There will always be people that profit from war.

This is a religious war on the part of Iran. Yes they want nukes and they would drop one on Israel and Washington DC if they had the means. Islam demands world domination, death to Jews and Christians, conversion or enslavement for everyone else.

DT has many faults, which I have pointed out on this board.

However, I don’t doubt his motive. He is stopping the Iranian threat that other Presidents have complained about for decades and have done nothing

Peace to you

It's a religious war for you. For them it's a war for their survival. And they have beaten you. Trump has failed. Which means you have lost your religious war, again. But don't worry, you will have opportunities to destroy them in the future. Try try again.

 

[th1bill]

I'm curious as to where you deployed to for 30 months.

Vietnam, 2 one year tours with the Cavalry and a six month extension with the 1st AVN Brigade for early out. I was a fool but I was mad at LBJ and (snip) at Tricky Dicky.

 

[xlsdraw]

It's a religious war for you. For them it's a war for their survival. And they have beaten you. Trump has failed. Which means you have lost your religious war, again. But don't worry, you will have opportunities to destroy them in the future. Try try again.

Your precious Persia is going to be crushed by the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. Exactly as prophesied.

 

[Conan]

Your precious Persia is going to be crushed by the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. Exactly as prophesied.

Perhaps. But not through your or Trump's malice. It will not be destroyed by you or Trump. You two have failed and failed miserably. You have been defeated. God did not bless your efforts. He seems to be against you here, no matter the outright untruths flying out of Trump on TV.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning:
This thread will be closed no sooner than 0430 GMT (Thr) 1030 pm edt (Wed) 730 pm PDT (Wed)

 

[Foxmeister]

Vietnam, 2 one year tours with the Cavalry and a six month extension with the 1st AVN Brigade for early out. I was a fool but I was mad at LBJ and (snip) at Tricky Dicky.

Welcome home.

 

[Foxmeister]

The US has not failed in Iran.

Trump actually weakened Iran (Biden strengthened Iran). The problem now is politics.

I do not know if a war with Iran can be won. If the terrorists loose power over Iran they will still exist, just not over Iran.

But time has not ran out (it is too early to know how this administration will fare). And top much politics is involved.

The gains - a weakened Iran (militarily). A weakened Iranian economy. The withdrawal of the UAE from OPEC. The disruption to Iran's nuclear program.

While I am not satisfied with Trump's handling of Iran, he certainly handled the problem better than those in the recent past. He has not lost, yet. And may not. I just do not see a solution.

And I am a retired Army combat engineer (retired in 2014, 23 years).

As long as Iran keeps the Strait of Hormuz closed, they have us by the short hairs. They're holding the cards right now and Trump has nothing. He underestimated their resolve.

 

[JonC]

As long as Iran keeps the Strait of Hormuz closed, they have us by the short hairs. They're holding the cards right now and Trump has nothing. He underestimated their resolve.

I agree Trump underestimated their resolve. So did Biden. The difference is whether one gives into their demands.

They are not holding all of the cards. They are holding one card that is loosing value each month. The US actually holds a bigger card (we could stop exporting oil and demand other nations obey us). The US could starve Iran's economy. The US could destroy Iran's oil infrastructure.

BUT the longer the Strait is closed the more countries will look to an alternative.


If Mexico decided that no country can use the gulf except it go through their route and pay their tolls and only with their approval because they own the Gulf we would probably see things differently.

Iran simply cannot be allowed to take over the Strait. If the US allows it then other nations will suffer as Iran gains more power.

 

[Foxmeister]

I agree Trump underestimated their resolve. So did Biden. The difference is whether one gives into their demands.

They are not holding all of the cards. They are holding one card that is loosing value each month. The US actually holds a bigger card (we could stop exporting oil and demand other nations obey us). The US could starve Iran's economy. The US could destroy Iran's oil infrastructure.

BUT the longer the Strait is closed the more countries will look to an alternative.


If Mexico decided that no country can use the gulf except it go through their route and pay their tolls and only with their approval because they own the Gulf we would probably see things differently.

Iran simply cannot be allowed to take over the Strait. If the US allows it then other nations will suffer as Iran gains more power.

I have to disagree on who's holding the cards. Using the Gulf of Mexico in comparison is a very weak argument because Mexico has no way to close access off from it.

Think about your argument of what would happen if the US ordered US oil companies not to export oil to other countries and demanded they obey us. First of all you have the US oil companies raising a ruckus about it. Then the American citizens because that would drive gas prices to where most wouldn't be able to afford to travel or get back and forth to work. Higher gas prices also result in the cost of transporting goods and services would increase, driving retail prices higher. Then there is Congress. I seriously doubt Congress would approve such legislation. Trump issuing an executive order for such a ridiculous move would not only be unconstitutional but blow up in his face as it would create the greatest alliance of nations against the US.

 

[canadyjd]

It's a religious war for you. For them it's a war for their survival. And they have beaten you. Trump has failed. Which means you have lost your religious war, again. But don't worry, you will have opportunities to destroy them in the future. Try try again.

I’m not at war. Islam has been at war since Satan convinced Mohamed to write the Koran

Peace to you

 

[JonC]

I have to disagree on who's holding the cards. Using the Gulf of Mexico in comparison is a very weak argument because Mexico has no way to close access off from it.

Think about your argument of what would happen if the US ordered US oil companies not to export oil to other countries and demanded they obey us. First of all you have the US oil companies raising a ruckus about it. Then the American citizens because that would drive gas prices to where most wouldn't be able to afford to travel or get back and forth to work. Higher gas prices also result in the cost of transporting goods and services would increase, driving retail prices higher. Then there is Congress. I seriously doubt Congress would approve such legislation. Trump issuing an executive order for such a ridiculous move would not only be unconstitutional but blow up in his face as it would create the greatest alliance of nations against the US.

I agree, but it was just an illustration. Iran doesn't own the Strait. But it knows it can benefit from seizing it.

What I mean by the US holding the cards is the US holds them (not that the US will use thfm). Iran is being weakened (not only by Trumps economic and military measures but also by other nations seeking alternative alternatives).

The US would not stop exporting oil because oil is traded on a global market. This is why we could not be oil independent (exports affect our prices as well).

I was just using that as an example of how the US could apply global pressure if utilized to a lesser extent (not that we would, if we did we would be very much like Iran).

On the ground prices have not gone up too much. We complain here that gas has increased to $3.59/gal. But if Trump continued rather than waffling the price increase would be palatable (yes, I know this inflated other goods).

Stopping Iran's nuclear program was necessary, and the inflated prices are something I am willing to pay.


What I disagree with is progress has stopped. Trump talks loudly, but Iran has called his bluff.

 

[Conan]

I retired from the Army in 2010 with 30 years of service with deployments to Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan (twice) and Iraq. I don't know where you're getting your information that "America will never reinforce any military base in the Persian Gulf again," from. It doesn't make any sense at all. Any military member telling you that is full of nonsense. I do agree with you about Trump being a liar. He lies all the time. I don't trust the man at all.

It's Christians regardless of what nation they live in who should be sharing the Gospel. I do think you need to turn your tone down a notch or two because they way you're conducting yourself is turning people off. When you do that, they'll never take you seriously. Instead they will just start ignoring you all together.

My information comes from people that served in the military and still have contacts in the Pentagon. I have been following them for years and they have been right many times. I also listen to journalist who specializes in Geopolitics. If you have figured out Trump does not tell the truth so have the Iranians and many others to many to name. I was once his biggest fan. He could do no wrong in my opinion in the past. Biden was so horrible we looked forward to Trump. I do not want to see one of our ships sunk. But Iran has said they will talk to Trump no more and you know why. They also will not let America or Israel ships past the straight. We cannot sail through the Hormuz without Iranian permission. They would be sunk. Neither you nor I want to see that happen. Right now no American bases receives anything through the Gulf. They may from overland another rout, but not openly through the Gulf. We have lost bases in the Gulf now. Iran has struck Gulf nations for allowing us to attack them through their countries. They have asked Trump not to attack Iran. Who knows, Iran may collapse one day, but it will not be because of any military action by Trump or our proxies. It is not disrespectful to speak reality. You or I may not like it, but our Nation has just lost a lot of respect around the world. To not acknowledge our losses is propaganda. Before this whole action was started Trump was told we did not have the firepower to accomplish this but our proxy told us all we had to do was kill their leadership. Well, we killed a bunch of their leaders but all we have is made them band together as a Nation. We did not met our military objectives. We can no longer sail through the straight of Hormuz. We have abandoned military bases. We cannot provide protection to any Gulf State. They just found out they were not a priority. These are not good things. Trump has lost and it's time to realize he made a mistake.

 

[Conan]

You think too highly of yourself and you talking down to a veteran that deployed for 30 months shows you lack charactor and respect. This nation will not defend Israel when it matters, Yahweh has already recorded our stupidity and it is, therefore a fact. When this nation falls it will mark the end. We abuse no one.

I disagreed with you and still do. I did not talk down to you. But your military experience does not mean more than many others who served and were major leaders and have stood up for the truth. You should listen to them. You are not better than them. I do not agree with the things you say. It's got nothing to do with your military service. I listen to former retired US military people on a weekly basis for years. I benefit from the truth they bring to us all around the world. There is a better way than always fighting wars.

 

[JonC]

@Conan

If it were you, what would you have done to prevent Iran from obtaining weapons grade uranium, from extorting neighboring countries by control of the Strait (which affects the world market), and from backing terrorism?

I ask because I know you are critical of how other Presidents have tried (and failed) but you have not offered any different solutions.

 

[Conan]

@Conan

If it were you, what would you have done to prevent Iran from obtaining weapons grade uranium, from extorting neighboring countries by control of the Strait (which affects the world market), and from backing terrorism?

I ask because I know you are critical of how other Presidents have tried (and failed) but you have not offered any different solutions.

I need to search this board and pull up the video I posted all of this was going to happen before hand. In it was the Rand Corporation paper saying how they were going to accuse Iran of trying to make a bomb and it would be used to sell the war to the American Public. The US would say see, we tried to be reasonable but those fanatics won't see reason we have to bomb them. I posted this years ago when Biden was President. I posted it at Carm and people scoffed but it is exactly what happened. If I posted here and I think I did you will see that this has been Americas plan from way back. I am at work now but will try to pull it up for you. Perhaps you can find it if you have the time.

 

[Foxmeister]

@Conan

If it were you, what would you have done to prevent Iran from obtaining weapons grade uranium, from extorting neighboring countries by control of the Strait (which affects the world market), and from backing terrorism?

I ask because I know you are critical of how other Presidents have tried (and failed) but you have not offered any different solutions.

The charge for a cargo ship to pass through the Panama Canal ranges from $150,000 to $1,200,000. So, what's the difference?

 

[Salty]

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[JonC]

The charge for a cargo ship to pass through the Panama Canal ranges from $150,000 to $1,200,000. So, what's the difference?

Iran does not own it. They are forcing ships to take a route close to Iran, attacking ships that take a different route. The Panama Canal is not international waters, it is a canal.

(Just realized the thread was closed. Needed to answer the question anyway, so I will leave it up).