Trump Asks Christians to Pray for Him, Not All Leaders

[Benjamin]

This is a stupid post.

You cannot answer my original question honestly. A 'yes' would have you approving of sin. A 'no' would concede that there are legitimate reservations/concerns about Trump, and that you may not be right.

There was more depth to that question. But you wanted to avoid any reasoning why that was so and demand a yes,\ or no. Now you call my post stupid.

Now all you have to do is prove it by demonstrating how you will answer my question with none other than, yes or no.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet, Rolfe?

 

[Rolfe]

You cannot argue against another's conscience, Benjamin.

 

[InTheLight]

Have you stopped beating your wife yet, Rolfe?

I'll take this one.

I've never beaten my wife.

Now Benjamin, would you have me sin by voting against my conscience?


Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo

 

[Rolfe]

I'll take this one.

I've never beaten my wife.

Now Benjamin, would you have me sin by voting against my conscience?


Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo

I think what he wants is an answer other than yes or no. I am not going to play along.

(And I have never raised an arm to my Wifey, for the record.)

 

[Benjamin]

I see you two (I see a dancer and a hypocrite) are avoiding answering, yes or no.

 

[Rolfe]

I see you two (I see a dancer and a hypocrite) are avoiding answering, yes or no.

When the name-calling (I am confident that you mean me the hypocrite) starts, it is a good indication of personal disdain. I wish that you did not see the need to voice it.

You may now play in your sand-box without me.

 

[Benjamin]

When the name-calling (I am confident that you mean me the hypocrite) starts, it is a good indication of personal disdain. I wish that you did not see the need to voice it.

You may now play in your sand-box without me.

Whatever! LOL. I am confident when you said my post was stupid you meant me too. LOL. You sure like to play the Reverse Ad Hominem in that sand box of yours Rolfe. LOL

My advice is to stick to the issues and quit trying to make it personal because I can play around either sand box if I'm forced to.

 

[Don]

To sin is to miss hitting the bulls-eye dead center perfect, no one is perfect, so not an excuse, unless you think your conscience is otherwise perfectly satisfied on this earth. Go hide your vote if you must...

Rolfe, ITL - he answered.

Ben - no one is sinless. But Jesus commanded the adulteress, Go and sin no more. The lesson is clear: none are sinless, but we can try to sin less.

If Rolfe thinks voting for either Trump or Hillary is wrong, and he believes God is leading him that way--how can you say God is NOT leading him that way?

Just as it seems you firmly believe God is leading you to vote for Trump; who are any of us to say otherwise?

I think Romans 14 says a LOT about this thread.

 

[Rolfe]

Whatever! LOL. I am confident when you said my post was stupid you meant me too.

I said your post, not you. Read what I wrote only.

For the record, I say stupid things more often than most.

 

[Benjamin]

...but we can try to sin less.

Exactly! And we have 2 choices in front of us, which we are/should be responsible for using our God given sense of reason and intellect to use in doing so. Or as I said above go the wimpy route and hide your vote, that is also your choice. My point is there is more to consider than suggesting one is a vote for Jesus and the other sin. Take it or leave it...

 

[Zaac]

Exactly! And we have 2 choices in front of us, which we are/should be responsible for using our God given sense of reason and intellect to use in doing so. Or as I said above go the wimpy route and hide your vote, that is also your choice. My point is there is more to consider than suggesting one is a vote for Jesus and the other sin. Take it or leave it...

You're either for Jesus or you're against Him. Like supporting the Mormon,it's rather difficult to profess a love for Christ while supporting someone who rejects Him.

What I partially deduce is that there are a lot of Christians who don't care that they have been given a commission by God to make disciples.

They would much rather try their own way by supporting that which is against Christ and somehow thinking they are gonna change the country for the good.

For some reason there is a synaptic disconnect that tells them that you change the country by making more disciples, not by electing someone who is against Christ.

You like so many Christians are trying to fix things through politics instead of God's way.

Perhaps this is again why God keeps giving us more of what we don't want.

Four years ago, some of you supported a man who rejects Christ in private. Now you're supporting a man who rejects Christ in public. The only thing left is for some of you to support a candidate who says he is an atheist.

If you're supporting that which is against Christ then you too are against Christ.

 

[Don]

Exactly! And we have 2 choices in front of us, which we are/should be responsible for using our God given sense of reason and intellect to use in doing so. Or as I said above go the wimpy route and hide your vote, that is also your choice. My point is there is more to consider than suggesting one is a vote for Jesus and the other sin. Take it or leave it...

You missed the point entirely. Rolfe said he believes both Clinton and Trump are equally voting for sin. Do you still encourage him to vote for one sin over the other?

 

[Alcott]

If you're supporting that which is against Christ then you too are against Christ.

You just said all the apostles, except maybe Paul, were against Christ. You just said supporting Israel, which is a country overwhelmingly opposed to Christ, is opposing Christ. You just said that supporting Joe Biden, Diane Feinstein, Walter Mondale, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin,....et al is/was opposing Christ.
I will agree that supporting the ACLU is opposing Christ.

 

[Benjamin]

You're either for Jesus or you're against Him. Like supporting the Mormon,it's rather difficult to profess a love for Christ while supporting someone who rejects Him.

You’ve been riding on and getting away with this false dilemma fallacy around here far too long. You’re not voting for Jesus, or against Him, you are voting between the 2 humans He has put before you.

What I partially deduce is that there are a lot of Christians who don't care that they have been given a commission by God to make disciples.

This vote has nothing to do with making disciples, your argument does absolutely nothing to prove that Christians don’t care about that commission, the two are not even related. Trump is not running for Pastor in Chief. Your argument has absolutely no validity whatsoever toward proving your conclusion that to vote between the 2 human choices is going against Christ.

They would much rather try their own way by supporting that which is against Christ and somehow thinking they are gonna change the country for the good.

Trump has expressed more support for Christian Religious Freedom than any candidate I’ve ever seen, and YET you question beg that voting for him is going against Christ. You still haven’t supported your false dilemma argument on even one point and merely offer another fallacy while question begging your conclusion that it is against Christ.

For some reason there is a synaptic disconnect that tells them that you change the country by making more disciples, not by electing someone who is against Christ.

Another example of your stereotypical question begging, to begin with you don’t know that Christ doesn’t want you to His work through Trump.

You like so many Christians are trying to fix things through politics instead of God's way.

I think it more likely you reject His way of placing Christians in the world to make a difference through making the best of these choices as you preach to them they should bury their vote, thereby removing any Christian influence in the choice of leadership of your nation whatsoever. – if you had your way.

Perhaps this is again why God keeps giving us more of what we don't want.

And perhaps, the reason is because too many Christians believe they should bury their head, and vote, in the sand. - as you encourage.

Four years ago, some of you supported a man who rejects Christ in private. Now you're supporting a man who rejects Christ in public. The only thing left is for some of you to support a candidate who says he is an atheist.

Four years ago I’m pretty sure you were busy trying to convince Christians to bury their vote based on the same mislead principles which took the Christian influence out of the decision whether or not the candidate was Christian. Perhaps that is your true goal, I don’t know, for sure. I do seriously doubt any Christian candidate, regardless if he stood up for Christian values and put them at the forefront, would ever meet your approval.

I consider it a self-serving lie based on spin that Trump rejects Christ. Even if he personally struggles with theological issues his values of supporting Christian liberty and being anti-abortion far outweigh his opponent values and give a Christian reason to choose. You and others love saying things like, “I seriously doubt my Savior is going to be angry with me for not voting for a lying, greedy, angry, hateful, adulterous, covetous man like Donald Trump.” While failing to consider that Jesus might tell you that you also are a “lying, greedy, angry, hateful, adulterous, covetous man” that refused to do His work through those He put in front of you while making the excuse that he was too full of sin and you feared your Master was too strict for you to use your God given attributes so you buried (wasted) your choice/vote saying it was in His name that you did so.

If you're supporting that which is against Christ then you too are against Christ.

And again you base this on your false dilemma fallacy, purely same old unsubstantiated claim that voting for between 2 humans is a vote for sin and therefore not for Christ.

 

[Benjamin]

You missed the point entirely. Rolfe said he believes both Clinton and Trump are equally voting for sin. Do you still encourage him to vote for one sin over the other?

No I didn't. I addressed it, I'm afraid it is you that missed my point that such reasoning presents a false dilemma upon yourselves:

Ben: "My point is there is more to consider than suggesting one is a vote for Jesus and the other sin."

Such as: "Apparently some here think they are voting for Jesus rather than between 2 humans."

And: "Ever consider that perhaps Jesus will think of your vote as wimpy? After all, He placed us on this earth and blessed us with sense, reason and intellect and has placed a choice before us to use it, but yet you want to hold on to your choice/vote for Him. ...This reminds of the thinking of the servant's strategy who was blessed with 10 pounds and upon the master's return it was discovered that he/you had gained ABSOLUTELY nothing, in fact, merely hid the money/didn't use your vote or use your God given attributes to make a rationally reasoned choice while instead claiming he/you feared your Master was too strict as an excuse for your inaction."

And: I've previously addressed the rationale of "Moral Consequentialism" - if the conscience is not logically supported by a decision that has no positive effect and more likely a negative at best then the claim to go against your conscience is false. So saying I'm suggesting to go your conscience is not true since I've argued you haven't supported your conscience logically...

 

[Baptist Believer]

This I don't get at all. If you don't like Hillary, that's fine. Don't vote for her. But to vote for this man who is the antithesis of all things Godly is perplexing to say the least.

To be clear, I am not voting for Trump. Ever. Ms. Clinton is mediocrity and corruption personified, but we can probably endure it as a nation. We have endured previous similar Presidents. Trump is something else entirely - a man running for the office who is opposed to some fundamental elements of the First Amendment. If he is opposed to the First Amendment, why do some people assume he cares a whit about the Second Amendment or any other constitutional protection?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Our purpose in praying for our leaders is not that one of them may get elected, but that we may 'lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence' (1 Timothy 2:2). Our voting should be along the lines of who is most likely to preserve our quiet and peaceable lives.
All kings and presidents are appointed by God (Romans 13:1-2), even the bad ones. Even really bad leaders are better than anarchy as the people of Libya and Somalia could tell you. I am not sure that I have ever been able to vote for a godly Prime Minister of Britain (possibly Mrs Thatcher, but I'm not certain).

I will vote for the leader or party most likely to preserve my Christian freedoms.

 

[Rolfe]

You missed the point entirely. Rolfe said he believes both Clinton and Trump are equally voting for sin. Do you still encourage him to vote for one sin over the other?

Spot on. Exactly what I think. For me to vote for either would be bad stewardship of the blessings that I have been given as a citizen. This is a matter of conscience, not only one of preference.

 

[Zaac]

You just said all the apostles, except maybe Paul, were against Christ.

Yep. Sure did. And what's the problem with that? If they were supporting something that was against Christ, then they were against Christ while supporting that thing. Why is that so difficult to understand?

You just said supporting Israel, which is a country overwhelmingly opposed to Christ, is opposing Christ.

You're confusing supporting the land of Israel with supporting those within who reject Christ. Christ spoke to supporting the land. He did not say to support the people within who reject Him. They still go to hell.

You just said that supporting Joe Biden, Diane Feinstein, Walter Mondale, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin,....et al is/was opposing Christ.

If they were supporting something that was contrary to what Christ said or they flat out rejected Christ, then you got it again. That's opposing Christ.

I will agree that supporting the ACLU is opposing Christ.

If the ACLU opposes the things of Christ, then YEP again. Supporting them would be opposing Christ.

 

[Zaac]

To be clear, I am not voting for Trump. Ever. Ms. Clinton is mediocrity and corruption personified, but we can probably endure it as a nation. We have endured previous similar Presidents. Trump is something else entirely - a man running for the office who is opposed to some fundamental elements of the First Amendment. If he is opposed to the First Amendment, why do some people assume he cares a whit about the Second Amendment or any other constitutional protection?

I agree BB. In fact, Trump's type of narcissism is the beginning of the type of narcissism that I believe you will see out of the future Anti-Christ when he proclaims himself to be God and sets up the abomination of desolation.

And if Christians today , who should know better, support a man like Trump, why wouldn't billions support the Anti-Christ? Christians who support Trump or anyone who rejects Christ have set a precedent for those during The Tribulation to choose the person they believe will be better for the country and world politically, with no regard for the way of Christ.

And as more Christians start to do that which meets THEIR needs politically as opposed to meeting GOD's commission eternally, then the time will arise in which God will say ENOUGH. You(Christians) are becoming more of a stumbling block to people coming to faith than you are a help. Like He did with Israel, it will then be time to get us out of the Way, and bring in the 144,000 to wrap things up with the Jews and anyone else left in the world who hasn't sided with the Anti-Christ.