Truth - Is the Board Dirty?

[Bible-belted]

"Once you can stop your sinning, I will entertain your argument that homosexuals should stop theirs."

Another bad comaprison. To suggest that Muroh (or anyone) must actually BE sinless before you will condede that honsexuals should even BEGIN to stop sinning is ludicrous.

A propoer staemetn would be: "Once you admit that you should stop your sinning, I will entertain your argument that homosexuals should stop theirs."

Of course NNE denies that they should stop their sinning.

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Latreia:

I have yet to see anyone here insist that a homosexual must cease having homosexual feelings.

And we have another person who see sin as sin only in action and not thought. You are in conflict with Jesus on this, not me. It was Christ who said to lust in your heart is the same as acting on it.

You are grasping at straws with this fantasy doctrine that says it is ok to sin in your mind as long as you don't act on it. One can either not sin anymore period; or he can continue to sin but with the forgivness of Christ, otherwise what is the purpose of his forgivness. If man can attain perfection without Christ, then you reject what Jesus did.

And please don't claim that I'm saying we have a license to sin, of course not. We should stop whatever sins we can and let Jesus handle those we can't. This motif extends to even the serial killer who can't stop killing even if he were saved, but because of mental perversion, he can't stop killing. God will have mercy on his soul, for his sins, no matter how great will be washed white as snow.

 

[JamesJ]

Originally posted by post-it:
Once you can stop your sinning, I will entertain your argument that homosexuals should stop theirs.

Am I reading this right post-it?
Did you just admit that what homosexuals do IS sin?

 

[post-it]

My remarks to Murph was justified as he is claiming in his post that it is alright for him to lust, but it isn't alright for a homosexual to commit sin.

Did I miss something in his post?

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by post-it:

Murph, I didn't say it wasn't a sin in my argument (That was Josuha). In fact, Just the opposite, I said it was a sin equal to the sin you just admitted you are guilty of by lusting after other women. Why have you not been freed from this weakness of lusting in your heart after women? Is it a manner of degree that you judge sin? Jesus didn't make that difference. He clearly said "thinking" of doing sin is equal in to "doing" it. Therefore, there is no difference in your lustfilled sin and a homosexual living is his/her weakeness of sin.

Once you can stop your sinning, I will entertain your argument that homosexuals should stop theirs.[/QB][/QUOTE]

You are wrong as usual and someone should reprimand you for your attack on my reputation by misrepresenting my description of the fact that as a man I desire women. I did not say that I lusted after women which is sin but rather that my desire is toward women as is the natural(fleshly)desire of heterosexual men. I was also making the point that if I acted on a desire toward a woman it would be adultery, you have rightly pointed out that Jesus said to lust after a woman is sin. But I did not state that I am lustful toward other women and I demand an apology and retraction of this lie.

As to your view of homosexuality please clearly state whether you consider it a sin, the last I remember you thought homosexuals in a monogamous relationship were not sinful.

Murph

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by JamesJ:
Am I reading this right post-it?
Did you just admit that what homosexuals do IS sin?

Yes, it was. I don't know for sure if it is a sin since the Bible has some very unclear parts concerning it, but I have decided to adopt the stance that it is a sin, yet I will not ever argue that is is a sin against someone that is interpreting the Bible otherwise, they could be just as right.

It's amazing that no one else caught it. You did, but then again you aren't defending your ego in this debate as the others are. They aren't reading or listening to my posts, they are in defense of ego and a dream doctrine and not looking at what is being argued here.

 

[Son of Consolation]

Post-it, you are very clever indeed in twisting the meaning of other people's words out of context and say entirely the opposite of what it intended to convey. That is exactly how you misinterpret the very Word of God, the Bible, and you indeed condemn anybody who happen to profess a different point of view. But be as it may, the Word of God stands. You have been quoted many Bible verses by members of the BB before, nevertheless you refuse to acknowledge even the possibility that they maybe right - simply because you prefer your own interpretation of the good book.

I do not profess to understand your motive, but I do understand the context of your posts and I can't say I am impressed. Hypothetically speaking, you maybe arguing about the legitimacy of homosexuality because you may have a loved one who has chosen this life style, and you just can't fathom that he or she maybe heading for hell. The person may have a wonderful personality, and you just can't imagine that he or she is lost. Instead you invent this false security and believe that it is ok to live that way because God will at the end forgive all. If this would be true then the two most prevalent messages of the New Testament is of no effect. The message of John the Baptist, and later of Jesus was the call for repentance: repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. The second, equally important message, is the restoration of the wayward sinner. Yes, we all sin, and there is no person who never sinned. But we come to the throne of grace daily confessing our sins.

1 John 1:9 tells us, If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

A practicing homosexual, who willfully and knowingly continue to live in sin, even after he/she was pointed out from the Bible how wrong that is, cannot be on the road toward restoration. He or she is still living in sin. Contrary to secular teachings, homosexuality is not a birth defect, it is not an illness, but it is a learned practice - highly dependent on one's own choosing. But don't take my word for it, the Bible tells you so.

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
[QB]

Originally posted by post-it:
the homosexual is just as accountable to God for their actions as I would be if I acted out my natural (fleshly) desires for women other than my wife.

You're requesting an apology and I don't mind giving you one, except this sentence says you have a NATURAL DESIRE FOR WOMEN OTHER THAN YOUR WIFE. You didn't say you have a "natural desire for women". Did you make a mistake in your wording. Did you not mean to say that the part about other than your wife? If that is the case and it was written is hast, I understand and apologize, but I don't deserve a reprimand because you stated what appears to be something anyone would perceive as a lustful sin.

Now back to the point of the thread.

1.Do admit that any Christian man who (in their mind) lusts after women is guilty of sin, yes or no?

2. Is the sin of lusting in the mind as deserving of the need for Christ’s atonement as acting on the sin? In other words do you admit that there is no "degree" of sin. To violate the smallest of sin is equal in punishment as the greatest of sin, which is separation from God. Except for the blood of Jesus, any sin of any degree would result in hell.

 

[Gina B]

ROFL! Post-it, you have used the same tactic enough that people have caught onto it.
I already was talking to someone e-mail and said you would say what you just did.
Go on to the next step, it'll be fun to watch. You'll post specifically to James, pretend you're leaning toward saying it's wrong and seeing the light, blah blah blah, keep going, then finally throw up your hands and say "Oh no, I was wrong, it's NOT a sin!"
Throw a lot of verbage in between.
Go on, do it, a few of us are in the background watching with amusement your oh-so-predictable pattern.

Gina

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Barnabas:
You have been quoted many Bible verses by members of the BB before, nevertheless you refuse to acknowledge even the possibility that they maybe right - simply because you prefer your own interpretation of the good book.

That is not true Brother, I didn't refuse to acknowledge the possibility, in fact I did and that along with additional study and prayer showed me you all were right and that homosexuality is a sin. I don't prefer my own interpretation, I go by what I read and understand. My mind is open on this board and I study each argument from all sides then filter it through scripture.

But just because I and you hold that homosexuality is a sin, doesn't really mean it is. Having studied it in depth for these debates, an valid argument can be made that it is not a sin. I will no longer hold that view, but I won't deny that it exists.

As far as my twisting your words, I only take what you have said and show you where that type of reasoning will take you to. It is not clever but rather than showing the unsound or illogic of what one claims, it is usually easier to see it if we continue out the results of such thinking so that we see why it isn't really sound thinking. Nothing, personal of course, many of my own arguments are treated the same way by others on the board, they too can reveal my weakness using that technique.

[ October 29, 2002, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

[C.S. Murphy]

As I said Post it you have misrepresented my words, my point was that it is natural for a man to desire a woman PERIOD, I did not say I practiced lust which is of course sin. So are you now saying homosexuality is sin? if yes are there any conditions on your view?
Murph

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Chrysoprasus:
Go on, do it, a few of us are in the background watching with amusement your oh-so-predictable pattern.

Gina[/QB]

Gina you go girl I am very proud of you.

Murph

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Chrysoprasus:
ROFL! Post-it, you have used the same tactic enough that people have caught onto it.
I already was talking to someone e-mail and said you would say what you just did.
Go on to the next step, it'll be fun to watch. You'll post specifically to James, pretend you're leaning toward saying it's wrong and seeing the light, blah blah blah, keep going, then finally throw up your hands and say "Oh no, I was wrong, it's NOT a sin!"
Throw a lot of verbage in between.
Go on, do it, a few of us are in the background watching with amusement your oh-so-predictable pattern.

Gina

I'm glad you are having a good laugh at my expense. At least some of us can have fun even in the heat of debate.

Of course, you are wrong, I won't go back on my claim that it is a sin. If I do, I'll buy you a coke.

 

[Gina B]

[q]But just because I and you hold that homosexuality is a sin, doesn't really mean it is.[/q]
Is it a belief if you're not sure you believe it?
Is it just WAY past my bedtime or does this sound like confusion to anyone else?
Gina

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
As I said Post it you have misrepresented my words, my point was that it is natural for a man to desire a woman PERIOD, I did not say I practiced lust which is of course sin. So are you now saying homosexuality is sin? if yes are there any conditions on your view?
Murph

Again, your quote is very clearly stated. If you meant to say something different, I have no problem with that. We all write things down in the wrong context at times, I'm no different, but I would not expect someone else to apologize to me for my own mistake in sentence structure.
But if your ego and pride needs me to apologize, I can do that too.

I'm sorry I misunderstood what you meant.

Now take the same argument I tried to make with this misunderstood statement and apply it to the sin of pride you just demonstrated. Can you really stop yourself from sinning? Because you are expecting the homosexual to do something you can't.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Amen sister, But you're right it is past my bedtime. And it is about 4 hours past my wife's bedtime. You remember granny Clampett. If you ever meet my wife please tell her I mean that affectionately.

Murph

 

[Gina B]

ROFL, goodnight!

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Funny post it how that you can very clearly (according to you) interpret my writing but you have so many problems with scripture. Is this selective reasoning or what. But I do retract my request for an apology from you as one would never be genuine anyway. You have such a good eye for pointing out sin in others, thank you very much. Do I owe you anything for your consultation?

Murph

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
You have such a good eye for pointing out sin in others, thank you very much. Do I owe you anything for your consultation?

Murph[/QB]

No, just go and sin no more.

 

[Ben W]

I have read through this discussion with interest. I had no idea on how to deal with this topic. I would say that Homosexuality is a sin because the bible says that it is along with a number of other specific sins which have been mentioned before. No one will die sinless. yet Christians are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ and are accepted. Does this include what we might call "habitual sin" There are a disturbing number of Christian ministers and music artists that have got divorced for reasons other than Adultery and are still practicing their religion. When we know something is scripturly wrong and do it any way are we still covered under the blood of Jesus Christ.

Some people are saying that Homosexuality results from a chemical imbalance. I do not know how that is proved.

I reckon there are some who are into an eros type promisciuos situation who will give it a go in order to get pleasure from it.(have an each way bet) No promiscuity has any place in Christianity.

There is a lady I know who had horrible things done to her as a girl by men, She is Gay. I know of others who have been sexually abused that are hetro. I think Sexual Abuse can cause some body to make a choice to be Gay. These people heal over time and certainly can go into a hetro relationship. But they definatley need the Love of Jesus Christ from us.

There is a suggestion that Homosexuality can be dealt with by "Deliverance" ministry. I do not doubt that Deliverence from demons is called for in various situations in the church today. I am worried about those that come to the altar with problems and are given the "Slain in the Spirit cure" This quite often fails and disallusions people with Christianity.

If a church believes the Bible to be Gods Word as is then we have a problem with allowing sin to be accepted. At the same time there are Homosexual people who need the Love and Friendship that only Jesus Christ can give through a Spirit filled church. It certianley is a subject that provokes heated debate. But if Gods people are Humble and focused on God then His Comforter the Holy Spirit will lead and guide us through it.