Truth - Is the Board Dirty?

[Dr. Bob]

To imply that this BB is "dirty" casts aspersions on each one who posts. I wonder if that would be done "face-to-face" or if 'tis easier in the relative anonymity of cyber-space?

Trust others will continue to post here and debate the various "dirty" views of members here.

 

[Bible-belted]

Personally, I'd really like to here from Post and Johsua about my proposal to respect the consensus and take on a more positive role here on the BB wrt the issue of honosexuality.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by post-it:
[QB]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
[qb]As I said Post it you have misrepresented my words, my point was that it is natural for a man to desire a woman PERIOD, I did not say I practiced lust which is of course sin. So are you now saying homosexuality is sin? if yes are there any conditions on your view?

Post it 6 posts later you have still not answered my question above. Are you now saying that homosexuality is a sin with no conditions added to your statement? What about monogamous relationships? what about marriage between same sex couples? What about eunuchs who are born that way? Please be specific.
Murph

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
What about monogamous relationships? what about marriage between same sex couples? What about eunuchs who are born that way? Please be specific.
Murph[/QB]

Sin, it is all sin. Of course we all commit the same trespass of the law whether we are homosexual or not. You sin each day. I sin each day. The homosexual sins each day. We need not look at what the sin is as long as no one is being hurt against their will or it violates the consensus of acceptable behavior. What matters is that our sins which we all commit each day is covered by the blood.

This is not a license to sin at will, but a recognition that we all will sin because we can't stop some forms of sin, or we don't deem those sins controllable since they are sins that are chemically caused due to defects cause by original sin's effect on our physical bodies and or minds.

This is not a simple stand, I don't believe that any person can get away with the sin of homosexuality unless they can't change, or they have no internal desire at all for the opposite sex, otherwise they should change. But I can't expect every heroin addict to change just because they believe in Jesus. I can't expect a serial killer to change just because he converted to Christianity. They may be saved from hell, but not from the existence of defects outside their control, they could go and shoot up again or kill again and still be a Christian, a Christian without 100% control of the defect. We all suffer from defects. Some of us are Gluttons, some of us are gossips, some of us lust in our hearts for things we shouldn't. I don't believe there is any difference in the eyes of God between one sin and another, for all are punishable with death and hell. So either we are all saved and will continue to sin, or we are all saved and will sin no more. There isn't a 3rd choice. There is no doctrine which states that stopping some types of sin is good enough. The is no doctrine that says secret sins we all suffer from are the only acceptable sins allowed a Christian.

All sins are created and punished equally. Only the saved will be spared. A Christian gossip, a Christian porno addict, A Christian Prozac user, A Christian homosexual, A Christian Fat slob. All saved from their sins. Just as you are saved from your daily sins.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by post-it:
[Murph[/QB]

Sin, it is all sin. Of course we all commit the same trespass of the law whether we are homosexual or not. You sin each day. I sin each day. The homosexual sins each day. We need not look at what the sin is as long as no one is being hurt against their will or it violates the consensus of acceptable behavior. What matters is that our sins which we all commit each day is covered by the blood.

This is not a license to sin at will, but a recognition that we all will sin because we can't stop some forms of sin, or we don't deem those sins controllable since they are sins that are chemically caused due to defects cause by original sin's effect on our physical bodies and or minds.

Post it I knew you could not do this because you still place conditions on your belief that homosexuality is sin. Just a Bible refresher for you : There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1 Cor 10:13 (KJV)

There is no sin that is not your fault, God is able to save and for you to insist that a chemically unbalanced homosexual is not accountable to God for their sin is a false doctrine. Also your words above about sin that doesn't harm anyone is just wrong, sin is sin. Just as David said when confronted about Bathsheba, his sin was against God. That is the ultimate end of all sin, a slap in the face of a loving God.
Murph

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Just a Bible refresher for you : There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1 Cor 10:13 (KJV)

So why is there not one single Christian who doesn't sin? You are using verses out of context. This type of temptation can't be a blanket application to all sin. Temptation even applies to no sin activity such as temptation to give up on a project or job. Just as it does have some application to certain sins, it has some application to no sin activities by Christians.

There is no sin that is not your fault, God is able to save and for you to insist that a chemically unbalanced homosexual is not accountable to God for their sin is a false doctrine.

I never claimed that it wasn't wrong and accountable to God. Some sins are more your fault than others. But just the fact they are done by you makes it your fault. I have not said otherwise.

Also your words above about sin that doesn't harm anyone is just wrong, sin is sin. Just as David said when confronted about Bathsheba, his sin was against God. That is the ultimate end of all sin, a slap in the face of a loving God.
Murph

All sin harms, that was not the context of my statement. Murder or Gossip harms and is wrong and punishable by death and hell. And yes, both harm or could lead to harming another. Yet one, we have laws to prevent and the other we have laws to protect. You will commit one because you can't help it, the other you most likely will not do. The problem is that every Christian is guilty of continuing to sin, and there are some we have come together as a country to prevent and punish, there are others that we come together in churches to prevent and punish, then there are some that are allowed because they are impossible to stop, and it is those sins that are allowed to continue in every Church. Those sins are why we continue to need the covering of the blood and forgiveness of Christ.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by post-it:
This is not a simple stand, I don't believe that any person can get away with the sin of homosexuality unless they can't change, or they have no internal desire at all for the opposite sex, otherwise they should change.

Post it apparently I am too unlearned to fully understand your words but in the quote above are you not leaving the door open for the belief that some homosexuals are true homosexuals from birth and therefore are not accountable for this sin because it is not sin for them?
Murph

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:

Originally posted by post-it:
This is not a simple stand, I don't believe that any person can get away with the sin of homosexuality unless they can't change, or they have no internal desire at all for the opposite sex, otherwise they should change.

Post it apparently I am too unlearned to fully understand your words but in the quote above are you not leaving the door open for the belief that some homosexuals are true homosexuals from birth and therefore are not accountable for this sin because it is not sin for them?
Murph

There is no door for the homosexual from birth, just as any Christian may lust in their hearts wrongly (sin) from birth and after the 2nd birth as well. These are sins that are ingrained in the body and mind as defects from original sin that 99.9% of the time can't be changed by choice.

So there are natually born homosexuals that mostly can't change and there are heterosexuals that experiment or get hooked into the lifestyle but can change because inside their heart, it is wrong for them. It is bad and results in bad things happening here on earth for them. These are the reasons they should change. They can never be truly happy doing what is in opposition to their nature. Just as an adulterer can never find happiness either. Dispite that they are saved and forgiven.

But those that have a inbread weakness for a piticular sin, that most likely can't be changed. Yet they can be saved by believing in Christ. We will see homosexuals as well as gluttons in heaven.

 

[post-it]

Why aren't we treating the homosexual Christian like we treat Fat Christians or Gossiping Christians.

We don't doubt that these gluttons or even skinny gluttons like they have the plague and must change from their weakness or we will consider them non-Christian.

 

[Jim1999]

When I was teaching at the divinity school, I took a group of students to the slum area; a sight-seeing tour to be sure. I asked one student to go and sit beside a drunk in the street, put his arm on his shoulder and tell him that he loved him and so did Jesus.

The student replied, "I can't do that."

My response, "This is the gospel. Perhaps you have chosen the wrong field."

This is the gospel. We must love all peoples where they are, and in whatever state they are in. If we lose sight of this then we are as sounding brass and tinkling cymbals, preaching to the elite, the clean and neglecting the very things our Lord so graciously did throughtout His ministry, and afterall, is He not the Word?

I am not certain about the genetic beginnings of homosexuality. The one study was done by a homosexual who had an agenda, and he alone said science proves that homosexuality is genetic. The medical profession, as a whole, is not so certain on that point.

Aside from that, we know that the Holy Spirit is the author of change, and in His work, all things are possible,,,,even genetic conversion. In the interim, we must treat people where they are. We must love them in Christ. We must treat them decently. I think this is what Post-It is trying to say. Despite the sin, we love them. Because of the sin, we love them more.

In all things, let us lift the Saviour high, and bow ourselves before Him, in love and determination to what is right in His eyes.

Cheers, and God bless,

Jim

 

[Bible-belted]

Wise words, Jim. Thank you for sharing them.

 

[John3v36]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
When I was teaching at the divinity school, I took a group of students to the slum area; a sight-seeing tour to be sure. I asked one student to go and sit beside a drunk in the street, put his arm on his shoulder and tell him that he loved him and so did Jesus.

The student replied, "I can't do that."

My response, "This is the gospel. Perhaps you have chosen the wrong field."

This is the gospel. We must love all peoples where they are, and in whatever state they are in.

What about:

Revelation 2:6
But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate .

Can we add the above to the message.

The woman who was going to be stone had mercy shown but was also told "go and sin no more".

when we put our arm around a person and Just tell them Jesus loves you is only 1/2 the message.

I'm not saying we don't treat people decently. But I am saying the same sin Christ died for he will send people to hell for lest thy REPENT and turn to Christ.

[ October 31, 2002, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: John3v36 ]

 

[mark]

I feel like the original issue here was whether we can discuss issues like homosexuality here. Is it right to talk it over and open-minded. I have been thinking about it and homosexuality is a sin, I think that is clear. So is adultry and fornication. We do have a tendency to be a bit more forgiving, as conservatives, of adultry (whether in the flesh or in the heart) or fornication because, cringe, we could see that happening to us!
However, while we conservatives might be more repulsed by homosexuality, very few of us would ever say, "well adultry is not a sin". I think if some came on here and said, "I've been in an adultrous affair for a year now" the response would be, that the brother or sister needs to get out of the relationship and try to heal the marriage. We wouldn't debate whether or not the affair was somehow acceptable.
It seems that there are those who really want to blast homosexuality as a TERRIBLE sin, it is, but so is adultry and others. But just as as bad are those who deny that homosexuality is sin. Can we discuss it? you bet! BUT we need to remember the issue we are discussing is a cut and dryed sin.

 

[Bible-belted]

Mark, you said:

"Is it right to talk it over and open-minded. I have been thinking about it and homosexuality is a sin, I think that is clear. So is adultry and fornication. We do have a tendency to be a bit more forgiving, as conservatives, of adultry (whether in the flesh or in the heart) or fornication because, cringe, we could see that happening to us!
However, while we conservatives might be more repulsed by homosexuality, very few of us would ever say, "well adultry is not a sin". I think if some came on here and said, "I've been in an adultrous affair for a year now" the response would be, that the brother or sister needs to get out of the relationship and try to heal the marriage. We wouldn't debate whether or not the affair was somehow acceptable.
It seems that there are those who really want to blast homosexuality as a TERRIBLE sin, it is, but so is adultry and others. But just as as bad are those who deny that homosexuality is sin. Can we discuss it? you bet! BUT we need to remember the issue we are discussing is a cut and dryed sin."

My point exactly. The question is whether folks like Post and Joshua can actually discuss the issues without calling into question whether what we are discussing is a cut and dryed sin.

 

[Jim1999]

John.....When a person is standing in the motorway and a motorcar is coming, one does not read the book on probabilities of accents happening,,,one shouts........"Move."

One of the hazards of posting anything is here is writing a brief note and not quoting from Genesis to Revelation.....

The message stands as written.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[jimslade]

SIN is SIN whether it be a lie or homosexuality
To question that they are not sins, flies in the face of Gods Word. Anyone that says they are not, ARE NOT SAVED! God calls us to be Holy!

 

[John3v36]

Men/women were created to love and have fellowship with their Creator, not as robots but in freedom. Man had the choice between the light of God and the darkness of sin. Satan and all his hosts of wicked spirits and fallen angels have become "the rulers of the darkness of this world" (Ephesians 6:12). The tragedy is that, ever since Adam, men have "loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil" (John 3:17), and so have been implementing "the works of darkness" (Romans 13:12), and deserving nothing but "the blackness of darkness for ever" (Jude 13).
But our God has become our Redeemer. He "hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light" (I Peter 2:19) paying the great cost for our redemption on the cross. The Father "hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son" (Colossians 2:13) That power includes all sins. That is why Paul could say "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) A saint of God does not live in the sin of his past. That is why Paul went on to say, "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."(1 Corinthians 6:11). We have been delivered out of these sins.

[ November 01, 2002, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: John3v36 ]

 

[Jim1999]

"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light" Plato

Cheers,

Jim

 

[John3v36]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light" Plato

Cheers,

Jim

"the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." John

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by post-it:

All sins are created and punished equally. Only the saved will be spared. A Christian gossip, a Christian porno addict, A Christian Prozac user, A Christian homosexual, A Christian Fat slob. All saved from their sins. Just as you are saved from your daily sins.

Uh, just curious to know why using Prozac would make one a sinner? Unless the Prozac is being abused, and it is my understanding that Prozac is not prone to abuse.....

I am not saying that a Prozac user is not a sinner, but 'why Prozac'?

[ November 02, 2002, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Phillip ]