TULIP POLL

[Sai]

Not Biblical. Acts of the Apostles 4:12, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
1 Timothy 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

Amen. However, the cross provided the ability for the human race to be saved since by one man’s righteousness live and grace entered the world. But the work of predestination and election are also part of the means of salvation. That is why before the cross salvation happened. Justification is a result of the cross but the total salvation package requires the work of the effectual calling of God’s elect. Without the drawing of the elect to hearing the presentation of the gospel message, they could not get saved. The elect were lost until they believed.

 

[37818]

Humans are by birth good and perfect until they choose to deny God. . . .

Not Biblical. Psalms 58:3, "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, . . ."

 

[tyndale1946]

I see a nuanced difference between the preservation of the saints and the perseverance of the saints.
I believe the perseverance of the saints is more accurate.

9. We believe that none who are born again will fall away so as to be lost, but that they will persevere through grace to glory.

John 10:28-29. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 6:39. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I Peter 1:5. Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I Peter 1:23. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.

Romans 8:30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified; and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Jeremiah 32:40. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

I agree... Brother Glen

 

[Salty]

Seems you need to fix your poll.

Nope - the poll is fine - if you vote all the options that you agree

 

[timtofly]

Your position results in God being weak.
His atonement is universal, but it only saves some. Therefore, his atonement is ineffective for most.
It's like a flu virus that is only helpful to a few, but most still get the flu.

How can it just save some? That is unlimited limited atonement.

It saves all, but not all concede.

How can you keep adding what Atonement is, based on a different point of the theology? Atonement stands alone. What a sinner is or does, will not effect, change, affect, limit, nor hinder Atonement. If all would just accept the Holy Spirit seals at conception, it would do away with Limited Atonement and it would just be Atonement. Adam sinned before Seth was conceived yet sin effected Seth at conception. Atonement was before Adam was created thus Atonement happened before all were conceived. All were sealed from before conception, thus conception was the moment it happened physically. We have to concede our own works. Those in Revelation who worked past the 6000 year cut off point, and were branded with the expiration date, retained their own works and the Atonement no longer applied. It seems more logical to argue about them, than who is elect, when it comes to what Atonement does. The Lamb's book of life was sealed from the foundation of the world, before creation. Thus all in it were sealed. Atonement covered the whole book. God foreknew and predestined all before creation. Why not elect all then as well?

Why change Atonement to be any thing other than Atonement? Personally it seems that Jesus had disciples on earth that were specifically chosen and elected. We see this in the 144K in Revelation. We are not told, but it was implied the same thing could have happened the first time Jesus came, and it had nothing to do with Atonement. It just meant God wanted an exact amount, and certain people to be the Apostles and disciples of Jesus' earthly ministry.

 

[rockytopva]

I don't like the John Calvin guy and do not go along with anything he has got to say. So I only checked the last option. As far as bible commentaries I would prefer John Wesley or John Bunyan.

 

[Barry Johnson]

I think we have done this before but because we have many new members.....

To keep things on the same level - here is T U L I P

I know some will say - "I don't do labels" well, whether you do or not -
you do believe theses items - one way or the other - and if you don't know
as a Christian - you have a responsibility to learn from Scripture what the truth is.

I think we have done this before but because we have many new members.....

To keep things on the same level - here is T U L I P

I know some will say - "I don't do labels" well, whether you do or not -
you do believe theses items - one way or the other - and if you don't know
as a Christian - you have a responsibility to learn from Scripture what the truth is.

I believe all 5 points as defined by the system are unbiblical .

 

[1689Dave]

I'm in line with the first 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism as stated by the synod of Dordt. Limited Atonement is one of the most important doctrines in the bible if not the most important. I lean towards the Reformed Baptists on baptism and the nature of the church. But believe regeneration is the means of grace and not the scriptures as the Reformed say. But often regeneration happens during the preaching of the word.... Perseverance is a result of regeneration and the quest for a holy life it produces. Thanks for asking.

 

[Dave G]

All five and all individual points of the 5.
I was only recently convinced, in my personal studies, of "Particular Redemption".

I agree with the Synod of Dordt is their summary, but I am neither "Reformed" nor have I studied the works of any "Calvinist" writers to come my understanding of it.

I believe that the word of God is dead to the ears of mankind unless and until the Holy Spirit uses it to call someone to Christ.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God...
But unless on has "ears to hear" ( Matthew 11:15 ) and is "of God" ( John 8:43-47 ), they will never truly hear it and understand it.

 

[Salty]

Wow - a dozen voters and 20 opinions!

 

[Alan Gross]

I believe those who believe all five can do something in their posts that others seem to not have any record of and that is, "Glorify God", "Worship God", "Praise Jesus", etc.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14

This section in the Forum makes a subtle type of assumption that a view of The Bible of two positions on Salvation might be possible(?) and Salty has this Poll, but where is the record of those who "Glorify God", "Worship God", "Praise Jesus", etc., in their previous posts?

I am wondering if there is a relationship between them who do not "Glorify God", "Worship God", "Praise Jesus", etc. in the RECORD of their POSTS, to those who deny these Five Doctrinal positions.

 

[Yeshua1]

Other - none and all (no in-between) depending on how they are defined.

Calvinism works off a system where one cannot be a Calvinist without being a "five-point Calvinist". I believe the system an introduction of humanistic philosophy into Christianity. But at the same time I can affirm all five points divorced from the system of Calvinism.

Its not Humanistic theology, as it is actually reading back out from the scriptures themselves!

 

[Yeshua1]

All five and all individual points of the 5.
I was only recently convinced, in my personal studies, of "Particular Redemption".

I agree with the Synod of Dordt is their summary, but I am neither "Reformed" nor have I studied the works of any "Calvinist" writers to come my understanding of it.

I believe that the word of God is dead to the ears of mankind unless and until the Holy Spirit uses it to call someone to Christ.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God...
But unless on has "ears to hear" ( Matthew 11:15 ) and is "of God" ( John 8:43-47 ), they will never truly hear it and understand it.

I was of the so called free will gospel persuasion for many years once saved, bujt ny studying the scriptures over time, was sold on the truth that salvation start to finish of of the Lord!

 

[Alan Gross]

I was of the so called free will gospel persuasion for many years once saved, bujt ny studying the scriptures over time, was sold on the truth that salvation start to finish of of the Lord!

Alfa and Omega.

 

[timtofly]

Its not Humanistic theology, as it is actually reading back out from the scriptures themselves!

It is taking a single human opinion, and then finding every verse that will back up that opinion, in the wrong way.

 

[tyndale1946]

Alfa and Omega.

Ok Salty... After you cleared up the voting order I voted for each point of TULIP and also checked 5 pointer... So Salty you started the poll... What are you?... Brother Glen

 

[kyredneck]

You need to go back and check all five points - in addition the "number of points you voted for)"

Wow - a dozen voters and 20 opinions!

???

What did you expect?

 

[JonC]

Its not Humanistic theology, as it is actually reading back out from the scriptures themselves!

My affirmation is (I hold the 5 points without a humanistic system).

In other words, take Calvinism and remove what is not actually in the Bible. That is what I hold.

 

[tyndale1946]

???

What did you expect?

Nobody's opinion is going to get them to Heaven!... This is the only truth that qualifies... 100%... Brother Glen

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 

[AustinC]

The cross is not, the only saving instrumentality

This is cryptic. Tell us what, beside the atonement of Christ Jesus for sins, will pay the debt of our sin before God.