TULIP POLL

[AustinC]

Amen. However, the cross provided the ability for the human race to be saved since by one man’s righteousness live and grace entered the world. But the work of predestination and election are also part of the means of salvation. That is why before the cross salvation happened. Justification is a result of the cross but the total salvation package requires the work of the effectual calling of God’s elect. Without the drawing of the elect to hearing the presentation of the gospel message, they could not get saved. The elect were lost until they believed.

Where you and I differ is that you think God's call is ineffectual and therefore the atonement is ineffectual for many.
I think the call is always effectual because the atonement is for the elect, not for those who are eternally corrupt in their sins.

 

[Miss E]

I will only accept the P, once saved, always saved.

The rest are (in my God given opinion) distortions of the truth and untrue, and only came about because some men think they are 'special' and want to be an elite club of the saved. Who also believe we are robotic beings to an All Loving All Holy God, who chooses based on His opinion, which is based entirely on His own authority and does not take into account man's free will choice (which I personalty believe the Bible shows we DO have based on MULTIPLE scripture which the Calvinists like to twist to say they only pertain to His elite, while also denying the fact that if the Chosen had a choice to choose God, then they are infarct against their own doctrine of man having, to them, no choice)

So yeah, other than the P, I think the rest of TULIP is phony baloney macaroni.

 

[Miss E]

I believe those who believe all five can do something in their posts that others seem to not have any record of and that is, "Glorify God", "Worship God", "Praise Jesus", etc.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14

This section in the Forum makes a subtle type of assumption that a view of The Bible of two positions on Salvation might be possible(?) and Salty has this Poll, but where is the record of those who "Glorify God", "Worship God", "Praise Jesus", etc., in their previous posts?

I am wondering if there is a relationship between them who do not "Glorify God", "Worship God", "Praise Jesus", etc. in the RECORD of their POSTS, to those who deny these Five Doctrinal positions.

What are you saying? Those who don't hold to the 5 unbiblical points of this TULIP don't glorify God? Who are you to judge whether someone glorifies God in their life? Some do it aloud, some in their hearts, what does it matter? You are judging unjustly imo.

 

[Yeshua1]

My affirmation is (I hold the 5 points without a humanistic system).

In other words, take Calvinism and remove what is not actually in the Bible. That is what I hold.

Your theology would have how many points left over then?

 

[JonC]

Your theology would have how many points left over then?

Mine would be 7 points (tulipdb).

That would be total inability, unconditional election, particular redemption, prevailing grace, eternal security, double predestination, and best of all possible worlds.

 

[Sai]

Where you and I differ is that you think God's call is ineffectual and therefore the atonement is ineffectual for many.
I think the call is always effectual because the atonement is for the elect, not for those who are eternally corrupt in their sins.

Or I think there’s a general calling to humanity then a special calling for the elect.

 

[Salty]

I'm not sure about the others - but
why is it that the 5 pointers are unable to follow the directions.

The item with the most votes is Total depravity (13 Votes)
Yet 14 said they believe in all 5
I trust you saw at the end of the poll:
Multiple votes are allowed.

Can someone explain that to me?
Or are they predestined to only be allowed one vote?

 

[George Antonios]

I think we have done this before but because we have many new members.....

To keep things on the same level - here is T U L I P

I know some will say - "I don't do labels" well, whether you do or not -
you do believe theses items - one way or the other - and if you don't know
as a Christian - you have a responsibility to learn from Scripture what the truth is.

It's "perseverance of the saints", and if written that way, I reject all 5 [as defined by Calvinists] on Biblical grounds, but that wasn't an option...

 

[George Antonios]

I will only accept the P, once saved, always saved.

The rest are (in my God given opinion) distortions of the truth and untrue, and only came about because some men think they are 'special' and want to be an elite club of the saved. Who also believe we are robotic beings to an All Loving All Holy God, who chooses based on His opinion, which is based entirely on His own authority and does not take into account man's free will choice (which I personalty believe the Bible shows we DO have based on MULTIPLE scripture which the Calvinists like to twist to say they only pertain to His elite, while also denying the fact that if the Chosen had a choice to choose God, then they are infarct against their own doctrine of man having, to them, no choice)

So yeah, other than the P, I think the rest of TULIP is phony baloney macaroni.

You are right. And if the 5th point is "perseverance of the saints", then even that would be wrong.

 

[Miss E]

You are right. And if the 5th point is "perseverance of the saints", then even that would be wrong.

So you feel that once a person accepts Christ as their Lord, they could potentially lose their salvation by 'falling away'?

 

[InTheLight]

I'm not sure about the others - but
why is it that the 5 pointers are unable to follow the directions.

The item with the most votes is Total depravity (13 Votes)
Yet 14 said they believe in all 5
I trust you saw at the end of the poll:
Multiple votes are allowed.

Can someone explain that to me?
Or are they predestined to only be allowed one vote?

At least 27 people have voted. Fourteen believe in all 5 points. Thirteen believe in total depravity, but not all of the five points.

 

[Van]

well;;, its all or nothing on TULIP!

Utterly false

 

[George Antonios]

So you feel that once a person accepts Christ as their Lord, they could potentially lose their salvation by 'falling away'?

Absolutely not, at least not in the church age. It's just that perseverance of the saints and preservation of the saints are not exactly the same thing. The latter is Biblical in the church age, the former exists nowhere in scripture.

I believe in eternal security of the believer, but only in this church age, and I am not a Calvinist.

 

[Van]

Other - none and all (no in-between) depending on how they are defined.

Calvinism works off a system where one cannot be a Calvinist without being a "five-point Calvinist". I believe the system an introduction of humanistic philosophy into Christianity. But at the same time I can affirm all five points divorced from the system of Calvinism.

A person can believe in OSAS without accepting the other four bogus points.

 

[Yeshua1]

Or I think there’s a general calling to humanity then a special calling for the elect.

is the salvation calling to all or just some then?

 

[Yeshua1]

A person can believe in OSAS without accepting the other four bogus points.

It all links together, as all 5 are found in the Bible!

 

[Yeshua1]

Utterly false

To hold to calvinism, one must be all in, as no such thing as a 3 or 4 point calvinist!

 

[timtofly]

Absolutely not, at least not in the church age. It's just that perseverance of the saints and preservation of the saints are not exactly the same thing. The latter is Biblical in the church age, the former exists nowhere in scripture.

I believe in eternal security of the believer, but only in this church age, and I am not a Calvinist.

They are free to choose whatever they believe, even if it means doing all the work themselves. Which the whole doctrine teaches. They have no free will to stipulate, by their own ability to persevere. God only did the work of changing their will. The rest is up to them. They willed themselves in sin. They will, will themselves to heaven. That is reformed theology, in their own, nut shell.

 

[JonC]

A person can believe in OSAS without accepting the other four bogus points.

OSAS is not a point. The reasoning and basis is different.

 

[Sai]

is the salvation calling to all or just some then?

There is a principle taught in scripture where God promises to reveal himself to anyone that asks him to. That there is general revelation of the existence of God seem in the created things. If one looks upon creation and recognizes that a creator is there and rejects his idols, God promises more light eventually leading to a white dude showing up at the hut with a Bible [emoji846]